Re: 14.04 seems subject to bug 1046563 with update-manager/notifier

[Henk Terhell]

John, thanks for this explanation. I was now also able to get the update 
notifier working on my laptop and it even did so right after a restart!

Henk
John Hupp schreef op 19-5-2014 18:49:
Software Updater appeared again today.  That's two days in a row.  I 
left some updates uninstalled, so if it appears again tomorrow I am 
ready to call this solved.

For anyone just tuning in now, the bug in which 14.04 does not 
autostart anything from /etc/xdg/autostart affects update-notifier 
(yes, it's in the Release Notes, but I only remembered the application 
to nm-applet).

But the behavior of update-notifier and update-manager is governed by 
software-properties-gtk (Preferences: Software & Updates: Updates 
tab), and the setting there to "Automatically check for updates: 
Daily" seems to be not a statement about how often update servers are 
checked, but rather how often updates will be offered to the user.  So 
even after I got update-notifier running via the prescribed 
workaround, my testing method (rebooting after changing this, that or 
the other, then waiting to see if Software Updater would appear) was 
doomed to show that updates were unreliable.  If the user refuses 
updates once for the sake of testing, and reboots another 100 times 
that day, the updates will not be offered again.

On 5/18/2014 1:38 PM, bapoumba wrote:
Hello,

software-properties got offered to be upgraded when I booted up this 
morning :)


On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 5:23 PM, John Hupp <lubu...@prpcompany.com 
<mailto:lubu...@prpcompany.com>> wrote:

    When I booted the laptop today (with the Default applications for
    LXSession in place), I was immediately offered updates, so I take
    that as a good initial confirmation of what I posted yesterday.

    I installed some, but not all of the updates, so we'll see if I'm
    offered more over the next couple days.


    On 5/17/2014 5:07 PM, bapoumba wrote:
    Hey John,

    everything is set up to daily.

    Cheers,
    b.


    On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 10:46 PM, John Hupp
    <lubu...@prpcompany.com <mailto:lubu...@prpcompany.com>> wrote:

        At this point I'd like to think that there is much less of a
        problem than I thought for a while, but since the issue has
        security implications it's worth being sure.

        Assuming proper behavior for a moment, apart from phased
        updates, another delineation point is whether the available
        updates are Security or Other.  Preferences: Software &
        Updates: Updates (software-properties-gtk) by default is set
        to display security updates immediately (but only once
        daily, as it now seems to mean!), but other updates weekly. 
        So if your list happens to include only other updates, then
        nothing would appear for a week.


        On 5/17/2014 4:34 PM, bapoumba wrote:
        Hello :)

        I've been keeping an eye on this.

        For 2 days, update-notifier has not reported anything. just
        checked today with apt-get and got this from a simulation
        on upgrade :

        The following packages will be upgraded:
          apport apport-gtk python3-apport python3-problem-report
        python3-software-properties software-properties-common
        software-properties-gtk

        Looking here :
        http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
        <http://people.canonical.com/%7Eubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html>,
        I see software-propoerties has currently been offered to
        90% of users and is on day 2, I'll wait for a day or two.
        The other one that I have installed and could be upgraded
        is apport, but it is being blocked due to
        https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1282349
        The apport bug seems fixed, but the package offered by
        apt-get is still 2.14.1 :

        Inst apport [2.14.1-0ubuntu3] (2.14.1-0ubuntu3.1
        Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-updates [all])

        when the fix is in package apport - 2.14.2-0ubuntu1, only
        available in utopic for now (I'm on trusty).

        So we'll see.
        Cheers,
        b.





        On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 9:36 PM, John Hupp
        <lubu...@prpcompany.com <mailto:lubu...@prpcompany.com>> wrote:

            On 5/17/2014 2:57 PM, brendanperrine wrote:

                On Sat, 17 May 2014 14:37:38 -0400
                John Hupp <lubu...@prpcompany.com
                <mailto:lubu...@prpcompany.com>> wrote:

                    Some fresh experiences today:

                    I booted the laptop, manually ran just
                    "update-notifier" from the
                    terminal (and yes, I did forget to add " &"),
                    and Software Updater
                    appeared almost immediately to offer a big
                    batch of updates.

                    Rather inexplicable, but running with it just
                    to see what would happen,
                    I rebooted without installing anything, added
                    update-notifier to Default
                    applications for LXSession: Autostart tab, and
                    rebooted again.  The
                    update-notifier changelog indicates that it is
                    supposed to poll every
                    180 seconds.  For good measure I gave it 10
                    minutes, but Software
                    Updater did not appear.  I rebooted 10 times
                    and waited 10 minutes each
                    time, all with the same no-show results.

                    I also booted the desktop on which I installed
                    14.04 a couple days ago.
                    I did not manually run update-notifier but
                    instead set up the
                    update-notifier workaround in Default
                    applications for LXSession.  I
                    rebooted and *Software Updater almost
                    immediately offered 140+ MB of
                    updates*, which I installed.

                    Back on the laptop, I gave it an Ethernet
                    connection and rebooted 5 more
                    times, waiting 10 minutes each time.  Still no
                    updates offered.

                    I removed the update-notifier entry from
                    Default applications for
                    LXSession: Autostart, pulled the Ethernet plug,
                    switched the WiFi back
                    on, and rebooted.  I ran "update-notifier &"
                    from a terminal and waited
                    10 minutes.  No results.  I did this 5 times.

                    Then I did the same as above but ran
                    "dbus-launch update-notifier &"
                    instead.  I did this 3 times with no results.

                    
------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    The only hypothesis I can see from the above is
                    that
                    update-notifier/manager will offer the updates
                    once (per day?), and if
                    you don't install them it will not offer them
                    again.

                    Could this be?


                I think in software and updates from the menu is
                set to check daily by default.


            I see that now, and that may be the simple and good
            explanation for what appeared to be bad behavior.
             Though update-notifier runs as a daemon and polls
            every 180s, it is update-manager that actually offers
            the updates, so clearly there is some mechanism between
            them (which I have asked about here before).

            Software-properties-gtk (aka Preferences: Software &
            Updates) is supposed to "manage the repositories that
            you install software from," and its manpage describes
            it simply as a software sources list editor, but via
            its Updates tab it also seems to govern
            update-notifier/manager.

            Since it cannot be set to check more often than daily,
            it looks like I'll have to wait until tomorrow to
            confirm whether it works, but I'll manually add
            update-notifier back to the Autostart list.

            If that succeeds, then there really is no deep problem,
            only the problem with /etc/xdg/autostart that also
            affects nm-applet, etc., for which we have the
            workaround (and for which a true fix is in the works).

            Thanks, Brendan!


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