Again, I urge those who advocate for such a discussion, arrange for a public meeting in a public space, and not on LT.
> On Jan 2, 2025, at 8:17 AM, Jonathan Sheffi <jshe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > No, sir. Lincolnites (including yourself, Mr Shorb) have used LT extensively > and effectively to opine on whether Israel's war is just. Now that LT is > discussing whether Jewish people deserve the same rights as other people, we > won't be able to use LT to do it? We've already shown we can do it. As Ms > Mattes has said, we're an educated and sophisticated group. > > I reiterate my invitation to Mr Shorb, Ms Mattes, the Lows, and others to > engage on LT as robustly as you have done in the past: Do the Jewish people > deserve the same rights as other people? Should the Jewish people have the > right of self-determination and the right to seek political power? Does the > Jewish state have the right to advance its own geopolitical interests, to > defend its citizens, and to deter those who wish its citizens harm? > > On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 5:15 PM Paul Shorb <paul.sh...@gmail.com > <mailto:paul.sh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Jonathan - >> I think an interactive debate / discussion would be a wonderful learning >> opportunity. However, I'm not sure Lincoln Talk is a place where that can >> be done effectively. (When I engaged in such a back-and-forth on LT about >> the two speakers scheduled to appear at Bemis Hall recently, the LT >> moderators cut us off after a few rounds, which is their prerogative.) I >> wonder if a panel of speakers with different views could be organized, with >> some sort of constructive format? That would take a lot of work to set up, >> I recognize, but I'd certainly be interested to attend. >> - Paul Shorb >> >> On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 4:50 PM Jonathan Sheffi <jshe...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jshe...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> I appreciate your suggestion, and I get where you're coming from. But >>> movies can't talk to each other. People can. Therefore, I respectfully >>> decline to outsource the case for Jewish equality to any movie. I see much >>> talk of a "discussion of the issues" at some point in the future, but there >>> is no reason for us to wait. We're already talking about this, let's have >>> that debate right now. >>> >>> The selection, promotion, and defense of GRALTA's content make it clear >>> that those involved possess deeply-held views of the Jewish people—just as >>> I do. I therefore invite Mr. Low, Ms. Low, Ms. Mattes, and any Lincolnites >>> who disagree with me to share their rebuttal publicly on Lincoln Talk: >>> I've argued that the Jewish people have the right to self-determination in >>> their ancestral homeland, equal to that of Sikhs, Kurds, Druze, Samaritans, >>> Yazidis, Zoroastrians, and other ethnoreligious minorities. >>> I've argued that the Jewish people have the right to organize and seek >>> political power in countries where they reside, equal to that of Blacks, >>> Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, LGBTQ+, and every other identifiable minority. >>> I've argued that the Jewish state has the right to advocate for its own >>> geopolitical interests, equal to every other nation. >>> I've argued that the Jewish state has the right and responsibility not only >>> to defend its citizens from harm, but also to deter those who wish its >>> citizens harm, equal to every other nation. >>> GRALTA's movies and speakers disagree with me on all of these points. I ask >>> you, my neighbors, to step up to the digital microphone and make your case >>> against my points in your own words. >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 5:57 PM Pat Gray <patg...@oatbit.com >>> <mailto:patg...@oatbit.com>> wrote: >>>> I presume that the Lincoln Public Library would welcome speakers and/or a >>>> film and discussion highlighting the Israeli, Zionist history and point of >>>> view, so we can be more informed and open up a discussion representing all >>>> the perspectives of our residents. Yes? >>>> Pat >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 30, 2024at 5:38 PM, Roy Katz <katz....@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:katz....@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you Jonathan for this detailed and important response. >>>>> >>>>> Once again, a biased anti-Israeli, anti-zionist event is masquerading >>>>> itself as 'balanced' and 'educational'. Disappointedly, this bigoted >>>>> event is sponsored by the Lincoln Public Library. >>>>> >>>>> Pretending that this highly complex problem can be solved by blaming the >>>>> Jews is both sad and dangerous. In this 5-part 'educational' series there >>>>> is not even one discussion about the role of nationalistic and islamic >>>>> terrorism (first Fatah, then Hamas and other Islamic organizations) in >>>>> executing hundreds of terror attacks, murdering thousands and as a result >>>>> stopping any effort for a peaceful resolution in its tracks. There is not >>>>> even one discussion how Jews, Muslims, and Christians CAN and actually DO >>>>> live together with equal rights as Israeli citizens. There is no >>>>> discussion how Hamas is terrorizing not just Israelis, but also >>>>> Palestinians within Gaza and the West Bank, murdering and torturing >>>>> 'sinners' and political dissenters. And most shockingly, there is not >>>>> even a mention of the October 7th massacre, the single deadliest day for >>>>> Jews since the holocaust and how it ignited the current ongoing war. >>>>> >>>>> Not to say that everything that Israel does should be celebrated - there >>>>> are many things to say about what the Israeli government is doing >>>>> horribly wrong. However, without understanding that the islamic terrorist >>>>> organizations, which are terrorizing Israeli and Palestinians alike, >>>>> prevent any hope for peace in the region, there will be no solution. >>>>> >>>>> But, my biggest disappointment is that this video-series event is >>>>> sponsored by the Lincoln Public Library. The event's purpose is at best >>>>> misguided and at worst harmful to its pretended cause. I hope this is an >>>>> oversight by the Library's trustees and they will reassess the library >>>>> sponsorship of this biased and harmful event. >>>>> >>>>> I lived in Israel for many years, have marched in numerous pro-peace >>>>> protests there, and consider myself both pro-Palestinian and Pro-Israeli. >>>>> I believe there COULD be a solution, but only if people are willing to >>>>> accept the complete reality, however complex it may be. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Roy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 12:37 PM Jonathan Sheffi <jshe...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:jshe...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> I'm sad to see Lincolnites continuing to promote hatred and bigotry >>>>>> against minorities in our town. These movies do nothing to promote >>>>>> mutual understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Unfortunately, >>>>>> they deliberately obscure it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Israelism >>>>>> The movie's claims of apartheid against Arabs are factually inaccurate: >>>>>> Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs possess equal rights, which are >>>>>> specifically enshrined in the Israeli Declaration of Independence >>>>>> <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CQPEakcRkVJWFLPgWgo-B2iK/https%3A%2F%2Favalon.law.yale.edu%2F20th_century%2Fisrael.asp>: >>>>>> "We appeal... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to >>>>>> preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the >>>>>> basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its >>>>>> provisional and permanent institutions." >>>>>> >>>>>> Israeli Arabs have always been, and continue to be, an important part of >>>>>> Israel: Masad Bahoum manages the largest hospital in North Israel. Dr. >>>>>> Samer Haj-Yehia was the chairman of Israel's second-largest bank. Lucy >>>>>> Aharish is the anchor for the largest TV station in Israel. Mansour >>>>>> Abbas leads the United Arab List party in Israel, and his party was part >>>>>> of the governing coalition of Israel in 2021. Salim Joubran served on >>>>>> the Supreme Court of Israel until his death in March, and most notably >>>>>> was part of the panel that sent Moshe Katsav, a former Israeli >>>>>> president, to jail. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, this movie claims that Judaism is separable from Israel, which is >>>>>> factually inaccurate. A common misconception is that Judaism is only a >>>>>> set of religious practices. In fact, Judaism predates the concept of a >>>>>> religion. It is the cultural practices, history, and, yes, religion, of >>>>>> the people of ancient Judea. The words "Jew" and "Judaism" come straight >>>>>> from the name for the land, because Jewish cultural and religious >>>>>> practices were developed there thousands of years ago, and have >>>>>> referenced the land ever since. The movie's idea that the Jewish people >>>>>> "colonized" a place to which they are indigenous is inaccurate and >>>>>> harmful, as it serves to delegitimize the existence of Israel. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The Lobby >>>>>> The Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs leads efforts to combat hatred >>>>>> of the Jewish people and of the Jewish homeland. It is not covert. It is >>>>>> not a secret. It is not "black ops." Its aim is to work with people >>>>>> around the world to promote understanding of Israel and of the Jewish >>>>>> people. If you want to call it a government media relations office, >>>>>> sure. It's no different from what every other country does to promote >>>>>> its image and interests internationally. The USA has the Global >>>>>> Engagement Center, Canada has Global Affairs Canada, the UK has the >>>>>> Public Diplomacy department, and so on. >>>>>> >>>>>> Israel has the right to teach people who they are, and to promote their >>>>>> interests abroad, like every other nation. Denigrating Jews alone for a >>>>>> practice employed by virtually all nations shows prejudice against the >>>>>> Jewish people, and promotes an ugly conspiracy theory that Jews "run the >>>>>> media" or "run other governments." >>>>>> >>>>>> Furthermore, the choice to screen a film on the topic of propaganda from >>>>>> the nation of Qatar is especially ironic. Qatar itself is an autocracy >>>>>> that has engaged in significant propaganda and public diplomacy efforts >>>>>> to promote its image internationally and advance its geopolitical >>>>>> interests. Qatar has supported various Islamist movements, such as the >>>>>> Muslim Brotherhood, as part of its foreign policy strategy and through >>>>>> its news network, Al Jazeera. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, the film uses the word "Zionist" as a slur. Zionism has always >>>>>> had exactly one meaning: the belief in the right of the Jewish people to >>>>>> self-determine in their ancestral homeland. Those who believe that the >>>>>> Jewish people do not deserve this right are accurately termed >>>>>> "anti-Zionists." The word "Zionist" is no more a slur than "feminist." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tantura >>>>>> The provided definition of the Nakba is factually inaccurate. The term >>>>>> Nakba was coined in 1948 by Constantin al-Zureiq in his book Ma'na >>>>>> an-Nakba ("The Meaning of the Nakba"). The Nakba has nothing to do with >>>>>> Arabs who left the British Mandate of Palestine, and in fact, he barely >>>>>> references them in his book at all. The Nakba ("catastrophe") refers to >>>>>> the outcome of the Arab invasion of Israel in 1948. >>>>>> >>>>>> In his book, Al-Zureiq specifically defines the Nakba as the Arabs' >>>>>> failure to win the war in 1948 and destroy the Jews. He goes on to >>>>>> address the need for Arabs to accept responsibility for their defeat, >>>>>> learn from their mistakes, and adopt a rational and pragmatic approach >>>>>> going forward. This movie, on the other hand, alters the definition of >>>>>> the Nakba in order to demonize Jews and place all blame for the conflict >>>>>> with Jews alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The War Around Us >>>>>> This movie implies that Israel attacked Gaza unprovoked in 2008. This is >>>>>> also factually inaccurate. In 2008, Hamas was firing hundreds of rockets >>>>>> into Israel, as it has been off and on since Israel withdrew its >>>>>> presence from Gaza in 2005. In June 2008, Hamas and Israel agreed to a >>>>>> six-month ceasefire: Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel, and >>>>>> Israel eased the naval blockade designed to intercept the importation of >>>>>> weapons into Gaza. >>>>>> >>>>>> In November 2008, the Israeli military discovered that Hamas had built a >>>>>> tunnel near Dayr al-Balah, about 250 meters from the border, in order to >>>>>> kidnap Israelis [a finding that turned out to be rather prescient given >>>>>> the kidnapping of over 200 Israelis on October 7th 2023]. Israel >>>>>> subsequently conducted an operation to destroy that tunnel, and only >>>>>> that tunnel. That operation led to rocketfire by Hamas against Israeli >>>>>> civilians, and from there to a resumption of the conflict. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In conclusion: >>>>>> The conflict in the Middle East is extraordinarily complicated. We could >>>>>> spend days discussing the mistakes made by Israelis, Arabs, Egyptians, >>>>>> Syrians, Iranians, Saudis, Lebanese, Jordanians, Americans, Europeans, >>>>>> the United Nations, and so on, each of whom have furthered this conflict >>>>>> in many ways. However, these movies and speakers promote simplistic >>>>>> narratives that blame Jews, and Jews alone, for all problems in the >>>>>> region, and then use those narratives to delegitimize equal rights for >>>>>> the Jewish people. These movies do not promote mutual understanding. >>>>>> They do not promote peace. They promote hatred and bigotry. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope that, as with the October 7th apologist who spoke a few weeks >>>>>> ago, Lincolnites will stand together against hatred and skip these >>>>>> movies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> Jonathan >>>>>> ᐧ >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 6:29 PM Stephen R. Low >>>>>> <steve....@gordianconcepts.com <mailto:steve....@gordianconcepts.com>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Beginning in January, the GRALTA Foundation continues its documentary >>>>>>> film series that brings balance and expands our understanding of “The >>>>>>> Holy Land Problem.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Each film is shown twice: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First on Thursday evenings at Bemis Hall (January 2 and 16; February 6 >>>>>>> and 20; March 6) at 7 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Repeated on Sunday afternoons at the Lincoln Public Library (January 5 >>>>>>> and 19; February 9 and 23; March 9) at 2 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If parking at the “Stone Church” (14 Bedford Road), as you face the >>>>>>> church, >>>>>>> please park in spaces to the left of the building. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Series Opener >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Israelism (2023|US). January 2 (Bemis Hall) and January 5 (Lincoln >>>>>>> Library). When two young American Jews raised to unconditionally love >>>>>>> Israel witness the way Israel treats Palestinians, they join a movement >>>>>>> of young American Jews battling the old guard to redefine Judaism’s >>>>>>> relationship with Israel. Runtime: 84 minutes Trailer: >>>>>>> https://youtu.be/bondvm3hvGM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Eye-opening…an essential exploration of the dramatic shift in Jewish >>>>>>> attitudes toward Israel” (Variety) >>>>>>> Dual Award Winner >>>>>>> San Francisco Jewish Film Festival >>>>>>> Best Feature Documentary >>>>>>> Audience Award (Feature Documentary) >>>>>>> Winner >>>>>>> Brooklyn International Film Festival >>>>>>> Board of Director’s Spirit Award >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Following each screening, there will be time for discussion and >>>>>>> questions for those who wish to stay. >>>>>>> <image002.png> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remaining Films in the Series >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Lobby–Part 1 (2017|Qatar) January 16 (Bemis Hall) and January 19 >>>>>>> (Lincoln Library). An undercover investigation reveals Israel’s >>>>>>> Ministry of Strategic Affairs, a semi-covert black-ops agency, >>>>>>> collusion with an extensive network of US-based organizations—not >>>>>>> registered as foreign agents as the law requires—to smear, sabotage, >>>>>>> and repress Americans’ free speech rights. Suppressed by Zionist >>>>>>> pressure, but ultimately leaked. Runtime: 48 minutes. Trailer: none >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My Tree (2021|Canada) February 6 (Bemis Hall) and February 9 (Lincoln >>>>>>> Library). My Tree follows Jason Sherman's journey to find the tree >>>>>>> that was planted in his name in Israel many years earlier. When he >>>>>>> discovers that it stands on the remains of a Palestinian village that >>>>>>> was destroyed in 1967, he embarks on another journey—to determine his >>>>>>> responsibility in helping to cover up the destruction. Runtime: 102 >>>>>>> minutes. Trailer: https://youtu.be/FdU4QiUE4gg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> · Tantura (2022|Israel) February 20 (Bemis Hall) and February >>>>>>> 23 (Lincoln Library). In the war of 1948, hundreds of Palestinian >>>>>>> villages were depopulated. Israelis call it “The War of Independence.” >>>>>>> Palestinians call it 'Nakba"'. The film examines one village- Tantura >>>>>>> and why discussion of the "Nakba" is taboo in Israeli schools and >>>>>>> society. Runtime: 94 minutes. Trailer: https://youtu.be/HNtrUjUNkJw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> · The War Around Us (2014|US) March 6 (Bemis Hall) and March 9 >>>>>>> (Lincoln Library). This riveting, introspective film focuses on Ayman >>>>>>> Mohyeldin (now an MSNBC anchor) and Sherine Tadros, the only two >>>>>>> international journalists in Gaza when Israel bombarded and invaded in >>>>>>> 2008. A story of friendship under stress, conflict-journalism ethics, >>>>>>> and the catastrophic experience that Gazans lived through during that >>>>>>> and in subsequent wars. Runtime: 77 minutes. Trailer: >>>>>>> https://youtu.be/Un2rzydURWc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Steve Low >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >>>>>>> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >>>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >>>>>> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >>>>> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >>> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >
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