Steve You really are madder than a sack of badgers. I think I love you really. Your total blind commitment to the cause is something to behold but death or glory when death is the near certain outcome was never an option for this football club. The life of the club was too precious for your methods. I'll indulge what I suspect might be publicity seeking for a moment but please don't then turn it back on me and say that I was seeking whatever you are up to.
>as the unofficial dropper of LUST news to the list, get off the fence for once in your life and tell all, I challange you to start this debate - AT THIS TIME Lets clear something up. I resigned from LUST after Mike McGowan rigged his own election. That is ancient history. I have very recently become involved with LUST once again on a special project and I may have to become further involved, somewhat reluctantly, as a result of recent developments. As for posting LUST related stuff on here - well I was just passing on information really. I wasn't on their circulation list so the stuff posted was incomplete but I thought that the list might want to know whatever info I had. Nothing more, nothing less. >Bearing in mind you were entrusted with the role as fans representative during the demise of the PLC, No bloody way. I was never the fans representative and never claimed to be. Leeds fans do not want anyone to claim to speak on their behalf and I never did. I always acted in their best interests (IMHO) but that is a different matter entirely. I had no mandate, I never sought any mandate, and I never acted as if I did have a mandate. If anything I acted to attempt to unite the different fans bodies whilst never seeking to challenge their own particular place within the fans body. In particular I spent a great deal of time ending the war that you were waging against LUSC and earning what respect was possible in the circumstances. Even today there is bad feeling and a lack of trust because of your actions in this respect. I have no doubt that you feel quite justified but what I am saying is true nevertheless. >? - or at least we thought it did when we created 'Save Leeds United' Don't know what to say here, really. >Tell us how you knew how much the bonds were REALLY worth How I knew ? OK. That kind of debt has a market price. It can be bought and sold. After checking with LU supporters on Wall Street and after speaking personally to American Lawyers (Do I have to name them ?) and after building in personal experience, the state of the club, and every other factor available at the time, the figure that we were talking about was 17 cents on the dollar. I don't recall ever getting a nod at anything less than that but I would have tried 14 and settled for 15. This means that I believe that "we" could have purchased what was nominally a debt of £60 million (so the club would have owed us £60 million) for approx 17% of that sum. If this is not what you are asking for then I have done my best and spelt it out here in public for the first time. Of course you don't mention that YOU never came up with the backers that you assured me that you had lined up. I had the deal to be done but you never produced on your promises. >Tell us about the people you knew in New York who held our bond I didn't "know" them. In fact the people I spoke to in NewYork/New Jersey were Leeds fans (working proffesionals in their own fields) doing their best to help. Sometimes they were even more sceptical than people on Waccoe and they handed out endless shit, but they all had the clubs best intersts at heart. (You know who you are and you all owe me at least a pint - of Tequila- each). The "people" who held our bond employed lawyers to negotiate with the club. I was talking with them and maybe this is a confusion, but they were not in New York. >Tell us about the meetings in Italy about the bonds Not quite right and not quite wrong. A senior lawyer who was involved for the bondholders happened to be in Milan for a business meeting when we managed to get a message through to him of sufficient credibility. It was quite late in the evening and I doubt that it was welcome (to him) but he did find it sufficiently important to pick up the phone and call me (as per our established modus operandi). I'm not saying more than that. The guy maybe saved this football club from extinction. I'll respect his privacy until such time as he decides to speak. >Tell me am I speaking bollocks when we knew that the bond could have been bought for less than 10 million quid? The best price we ever got to (I have to say -without playing hardball) was 17 cents on the dollar. >Tell us about appearing on Sky Sports News as representative of a LUFC Fans group Well frankly that was embarrasing. You almost blew the gaff on what was going on and I had to go on bloody national TV (OK it was only SSN) and come up with a credible bloody cover-up story. Thankfully Tervor Birch had given us an "in" and the Players representative (Gordon stupidbugger something or other) talked out of his arse to give me a way out. Bryn Law deserves a thank you from all Leeds fans for co-operating. He isn't stupid and he knew that there was a different story but he played along (to a certain extent - I mean he wasn't a pussycat and he did try it on a bit) but we put the lid back on and turned it to the advantage of the football club. As it turned out it could have been crucial in saving the club, but it wasn't, and no thanks to your reckless gung-ho methods. >Tell us about your meetings with LUST at this time I was doing my best to bring all fans groups into the fold. All i wanted was to know that if a fans rescue had to be launched then everyone would understand that it was for the best possible reasons and that they would not get in the way, but instead lend their support. I don't remember that meetings with LUST had any greater significance than that. >Tell us about emailing various figures who were main players in this saga - Including some geezer who was head of the Post Office? Well, telephone converations and emails. Always respectful and personable in both directions. Hardball subjects, certainly, but never a problem. He sincerely wanted to do what he could for the club as far as I could tell. >Your communication skills are diabolical and are like something out of a cloak and dagger movie with more twists than a raspberry ripple Sometimes things cannot be said but people can be pointed in certain directions. I assure you that my communications skills are fine. I would accept that they do not always meet up with your expectations, usually for a reason. This may be more about perception than about communication. Very often what is said is very clearly understood by those who are meant to understand it even though it may be obscure to others. The objective is NOT universal understanding - whoever mislead you into thinking that it was ? I never thought that my role was writing Janet and John books. This sort of situation IS complicated, it IS complex, it does have more twists than a raspberry ripple but where do you get the idea that I somehow created it that way ? That is the natureof the game that we got involved in and you play the game as it is. So far, I think I have been able to handle it (but who really knows). Don't blame me if you can't keep up. >With GOOD communication between professional people, Leeds United could >have been under the control of a fans group, there were enough of them >about... LUSC, LUIFA, LUST, SLU and a crap load of professional fans who could have used something like LUST as the main vehicle In reality this would have sunk 100% of fans money into payments to the creditors (more than was otherwise necessary) and would have left the club without a pot to piss in. What you fondly imagine as being basking in the glory of saving the club would in reality have turned out to be being the idiot responsible for getting the club relegated. You might not like it but YOU were saved from yourself. >Personally I did my bit, Ah here we go, I knew that we would get to this - >I bribed Ridsdale along with a fellow lister to Proxy nearly 10 Million >quids worth of shares to LUST to use at the AGM and even had a solicitor >in place to make this happen - Imagine the fans being the majority share >holder..... Lets get the crap out of the way. Ridsdale was prepared to give you the proxy vote on his shares at the AGM. This is a simple matter of Ridsdale just signing a voting form. It sounds very grand to say that you had a solicitor in place but that is like saying that you had a solicitor ready to witness the signing of a postal order. You use the word bribe. I know nothing whatsoever about that and I'm not following you wherever you are going with it. I have my doubts that you could have bribed Ridsdale in any meaningful manner but I am prepared to accept that he possibly agreed to give you his proxy votes for that meeting. What on earth you think you could have done with them is a different matter. How you get from this admitted acheivement to the idea that you would have ended up running the football club is anybodys guess. I think there is a gap in your logic here. >My reward was getting banned from LUSC for life, Waging war on LUSC was maybe not the brightest move you made - just an idea. >my integrity questioned, You mean like self-publicity seeking above all else whilst hiding behind the hypocricy of pretending that it was all for the glory of Leeds United when it was really all for self promotion of two Scottish barbers shops. That sort of questioning ? >and I admit I did call the Chairman of that organisation a rather rude >name, and to coin a phrase explained to him that I forcast him being the Chairman of Yorkshires largest Leek growing Club as they had nearly got £100,000 in the bank at this point, with approx 10,000 members No comment necessary >I had a finance company in place to take care of fans shares (local to Leeds) in the vent of a fans take over I confess that I do not have the feintest idea what this means. Do you ? >I also had the ear of at least 3 millionaires to back this project had the fans groups had 2 brain cells to tap together to make this into a Business Plan (and quietly away from the stock exchange) Well you never managed to get them to any meetings, never any phone calls, never any paperwork, never anything at all really. Are you certain that you are not expressing your hopes and dreams as opposed to the reality of what little you really acheived ? There is no need to imply some great secret from the stock exchange. One of the very first things that I told you, and which you never believed, was that the Plc shares would have NIL value. No need to purchase them, no need to mount a bid for them. I admit that you were not the only one who never grasped that concept because Abdul had the same problem (except that he paid a lot of money for crap advice). I told you for nothing and you made the mistake of thinking that this knowledge was worth nothing. Can I just check that the knowledge has finally got through - How much were the Plc shares worth in the end ? How long beforehand did you have this knowledge but wouldn't recognise it because it hadn't bitten you on the arse ? >I'm not wet under the ears when it comes to committees, business and organisations No comment >So, is it now time to stop sitting on the fence ? Whatever made you think that I was sitting on the fence ?. >You accused me of being a glory hunter or some such bollocks a while back, Yup that's right. Self serving pubilicist, glory hunting, prepared to risk the rescue of the football club in your personal hunt for glory, death or glory merchant, loose cannon. I said all of these things about you and they are all true. Still are it seems. >you don't know me, have never met me, and know little or nothing of my achievements, Are you suggesting that you have some acheivements that have not featured in your self serving posts like this one ? Are you suggesting that there is more to say than is contained in your blog featuring your lunatic chase around the UK and to Neckar Island trying to track down Richard Branson ? Your setting up of your own charity so that you could milk it for publicity instead of lending a hand to the perfectly good pre-existing charity that did exactly the same thing ? Have they kicked you out yet ? Well if there is more than that (God forbid) then I accept that I know nothing of your acheivements (as you call them). If there is some deeper and more worthy YOU then you have hidden it well and I admit to being blind to it. >and I've read enough of your dribble over the months to know you fancy >yourself as a pundit of sorts Well, if you say so >The floor is yours I didn't ask for it or seek it. You were the one seeking this exchange and not myself. It is all about you (as ever) and not about myself. >Many listers know all of the above to be true..... and there is a crap load more I could spout out... but it angers me too much Feel free but I reserve the right to tell the "listers" the truth and not the self aggrandised version that you want to put out >Hope Rick Flicks still about and managed to get a job after getting sacked for commiting his time and efforts building a 'secret' website for the launch that never was Actually he did not get sacked, but he did put in efforts way beyond any reasonable expectations. In many ways this says it all. What really pisses you off is that you never got to ride that wave of publicity that you were so excited about. Never mind that it wasn't the right thing for the club. You were, and still are, mad for that publicity and you can't get over the fact that you never got to play with it. Nothing whatsoever to do with the greater good for LeedsUnited. This is all about yourself. >I have always had this realisation that academics lack common sense I'm astonished that you know any academics. No reason why you shouldn't of course with St Andrews being such a small place. Maybe academics do lack common sense - you are probably right but is this in any way connected to the subject of this post ? Cheers Steve Cheers Steve. . _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist 'I am in shock,' said Ferguson.
