Re. Don & Bob items:
People who've been in the industry since the days of Strowger switches are 100% different than people who don't know or care what's sitting in their warehouse as long as they can mark it up 5% and sell it to unsuspecting end-users. Part of that difference is long-standing experience, part of it, as you said, having a network of friends in the industry to help with details.
Personally --strictly personally-- I don't have an issue if a fully competent individual occasionally sells something to an end-user outside of proper channels. For example you have a long-term client who decides they definitely want *this specific brand & model* but they want *you* to install it. Or a word of mouth referral of a similar type. Or instances we call "guinea-pig cases" (first client for a new machine), which are clearly informed of their status at the time.
But again, we're talking about competent engineers & techs who can bring in external help from friends if needed, and who and have a face-to-face relationship with their clients, and care about their clients, and will be there for them long-term. www.ScrewMe.com is *not* that.
Re. Graybar: People who go in there off the street also know they're dealing with an electrical goods wholesaler that sells primarily to the trade rather than to end-users. They are not expecting technical support. They need to know what to ask for at the counter. If Graybar occasionally sells machines that way, it's still not the same thing as www.ScrewMe.com promoting itself to end-users on false pretenses. On the other hand if Graybar is actively soliciting end-user clients to buy KXTDA on a "DIY" basis, I have a problem with that.
BTW, I'm an oldschool phone geek too, since the days of Ericsson crossbar and 1a2 with 207-C selectors, and even Automatic Electric type 87 three-line sets (!).
-George
On 19 Jan, 2005, at 10:48 AM, Carl Navarro wrote:
At 01:01 PM 1/19/2005 -0500, don wrote:
BOB,
I tend to agree with you, BUT !!
As a "non certified" ( in ANYTHING anymore ) telephone interconnect, After nearly 40 years in this business, I defy you, or anybody, to tell ME I can't install ANYTHING (with a little support from my friends)!
The "people" I buy from know ME, and know what I can do.
I think you are being just a little "hard-nosed" about the entire subject.
Don Ritchie Century Communications Euclid, Ohio
I tend to agree with Don, but the Internet has changed the ballgame. As an
interconnect, I can buy
nearly anything from the right channels. My case in point was the last
Toshiba and Samsung systems I bought.
I bought and sold them with the full knowledge that, as a non-certified
installer that I would not be able
to call the manufacturer for help. Samsung did allow a conference with the
certified tech and me, which was
all I needed. Both of these systems came to me from dealers who were more
than the 6-hour radius that Pana requires for TDA sales...well not by plane
:-)
The problem is that some of those "wholesalers" are now selling to anyone
with cash. Like Graybar. They make more money selling to end users and
sorry about your luck. Or the Internet seller pushing iron. Wow, if I
didn't have to pay liability or 24/7 vehicle insurance, I could afford to
sell systems at 20% above my cost, never touching the inventory, just
collecting the money and drop shipping the merchandise from my wholesaler.
Oh, when the TD systems go away, maybe that might not be possible. <<evil
grin>>
Jenne, Sr. made it pretty clear to me that he would not sell me TDA phones
even, until I was certified.
Obviously some other suppliers aren't as particular.
Carl Navarro
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