Thanks Larry. I'll take a look at the Readme file. SS
On 6/26/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > SS, > > The attached ReadMe.txt file is distributed with the JRE. I used > it as a guide for what to include. > > regards, > Larry > > On 6/26/07, Sunburned Surveyor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Larry, > > > > You highlight some of my ignorance about the way Java programs access > > the JRE, and how the JRE is updated. > > > > Would you be able to point out some documentation that discussed the > > process, and the advantages, of packaging a JRE with your program? > > > > You may have changed my mind on this, but I would like to do a little > > more reading about it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > On 6/26/07, Paul Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think there is a case for two installation packages. > > > > > > 1. Including JVM for the novice Java user > > > 2. Without JVM for those who know what they are doing. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > Larry Becker wrote: > > > > @SS, > > > > > > > > Regarding bundling the JRE, I think that there are still some > > > > things that are still misunderstood about the seriousness of the > > > > issue. Since we started bundling the JRE with SkyJUMP, our install > > > > problems have dropped to practically nothing. Before we did, there > > > > was a new install problem practically every week. You can run into IT > > > > policy issues that don't allow you to install Java at all, or specify > > > > a particular version, or don't allow Java updates without > > > > coordination. You may find that after you install a new version of > > > > Java, that other installed Java programs stop working due to the > > > > default JRE changing. > > > > > > > > I don't understand the reluctance to have multiple copies of the JRE. > > > > This is the normal case when you install Java and let Sun install > > > > updates, since they never remove old versions for you - in case some > > > > program is depending on that particular version of Java. If all > > > > reliability and ease of installation costs is hard drive space and > > > > download time, I think most users would gladly spend it rather than > > > > working for a week getting the program to work. > > > > > > > > Finally, the bundled JRE is a private copy that is not available to > > > > other Java applications. This ensures that updating it will not break > > > > any other applications. This allows the latest JRE to be bundled > > > > without conflicting with some outdated IT policy that the officially > > > > sanctioned version of Java is 1.4 or whatever. These misguided > > > > policies were created in the first place because of program > > > > dependencies on a single installation of specific version of Java. If > > > > every application installed their own JRE, there would be no need for > > > > any such policy at all, and most users would be blissfully unaware > > > > that they were even running Java the way most windows users are > > > > blissfully unaware that their applications built with Windows > > > > Foundations Class include a separate copy of most of the WFC dlls. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/26/07, Sunburned Surveyor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Peppe, > > > >> > > > >> This is great feedback, and I see that Larry and Paul have already > > > >> commented. Let me respond to a couple of the things that you > > > >> mentioned. > > > >> > > > >> Peppe wrote: "Setup question. > > > >> I started to suggest Openjump to my friends or > > > >> students. > > > >> The main difficulty I found with people is connected > > > >> to Java machine. > > > >> Some people do not setup well JAVA machine so > > > >> Openjump does't work. > > > >> Some other "Windows" people simply don't understand to > > > >> "click on Openjum.bat" file to run Openjump. They > > > >> expect the launcher on the desktop (and .bat still > > > >> remember them the ol'good difficult DOS). > > > >> I started to give people a version of Openjump 1.2B > > > >> with Java embedded, similar to Openjump Merge. > > > >> Proposal: I think it would be fine to have on the web > > > >> site two versions of Openjump: a) one with setup and > > > >> Java embedded for easy people, b) the second one - no > > > >> java no stup - for smart people." > > > >> > > > >> We definitely need to have an .exe for Windows people. I believe this > > > >> can be done with something like JSmooth. We should add it to our to do > > > >> list for Windows. Either that or make a shortcut that just executes > > > >> the JAR. I don't even think most Windows users would notice it was a > > > >> BAT and not an EXE if it had a pretty icon on it. :] > > > >> > > > >> I don't really like the idea of packaging a virtual machine with > > > >> OpenJUMP. For one thing, it makes the download a lot bigger. Also, > > > >> what if the user already has a JVM installed? Does he really need two > > > >> on his computer? > > > >> > > > >> I think that a good alternative to this would be some detailed, > > > >> step-by-step instructions that explain why a JVM is necessary and how > > > >> to install it. Let's not assume all our users are idiots, lets educate > > > >> them. :] > > > >> > > > >> Peppe wrote: "3)DXF/DWG > > > >> Openjump is becoming, thanks to edit/drawing tools > > > >> and SVG export, a good mapping software. A lot of > > > >> mapping datas are in dwg format and some people cried > > > >> the absence of a dxf/dwg import option. I always > > > >> recomand them the good Michael's dxf plugin. > > > >> Proposal: If Michael agrees, this plugin could be > > > >> embedded in Openjump. > > > >> Regarding dwg I image it is only a problem of time." > > > >> > > > >> Let me assure you that I believe DXF support is one of the critical > > > >> functions for OpenJUMP and that it is in my top 3 list of things to > > > >> do. I hope to build on the work of Michael to make a top-notch DXF > > > >> import/export plug-in. All, and I mean every last drop, of the > > > >> geospatial data used at my office is in some type of CAD format. If I > > > >> am ever going to realize my goal of OpenJUMP integration at my job I > > > >> have to have killer CAD support. > > > >> > > > >> On a related note I wouldn't hold my breath for great DWG support. > > > >> There are a couple of reasons for this. DWG is a closed format for one > > > >> thing. The Open Design Alliance used to publish a spec for the format, > > > >> but they just lost some legal battles in the United States and our now > > > >> prohibited from doing this. The only way I see us getting DWG support > > > >> is if Autodesk publishes the DWG spec or offers some type of free Java > > > >> DWG access library. (When I get done with my DXF plug-in you won't > > > >> need DWG anyways.) :] > > > >> > > > >> Remember that DXF is the format Autodesk want's everyone to use to > > > >> transfer CAD data. DWG is their money making baby. > > > >> > > > >> Peppe wrote: "6)Editing tools (not very seriuos!) > > > >> It would be nice to have some editing tools in a > > > >> "Inkscape-like" style. > > > >> Examples, tranfering some editing tools on the mouse: > > > >> a) one left-click mouse>edit/move object > > > >> b) two left click mouse>edit/move verticles > > > >> c) three left-click mouse>free rotation > > > >> This probabiy makes Openjump editing tools more > > > >> "international-ized" > > > >> Is this something difficuld to build?" > > > >> > > > >> I've done a little bit of work towards this area. I'm in the middle of > > > >> replumbing the CursorTool code. I hope to add some support for CAD > > > >> like snapping, which should provide some improved editing > > > >> capabilities. > > > >> > > > >> The Sunburned Surveyor > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 6/26/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Hi Peppe, > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks for your input. We don't get enough of the user perspective > > > >>> on the list. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regarding transferring styles, I would point out the very useful > > > >>> copy style and paste style functions in OpenJump. Also, in addition > > > >>> to Paul's efforts, I will be porting over SkyJUMP's Merge Task > > > >>> function which lets you create new tasks from old ones. > > > >>> > > > >>> I have also found that Java is the main setup problem for new users. > > > >>> I believe it is necessary to bundle the Java Runtime Environment, and > > > >>> to include a windows executable. > > > >>> > > > >>> regards, > > > >>> Larry > > > >>> > > > >>> On 6/26/07, Paul Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> I'm currently working on a whole bunch of enhancements to the > > > >>>> styling, > > > >>>> specifically around the concept of Theming layers by multiple > > > >>>> attribute > > > >>>> values. Part of this is a framework to be able to define the filters > > > >>>> to > > > >>>> select features to match. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> As part of this I have implemented a very simple way of loading a > > > >>>> saved > > > >>>> style definition from a Tab Separated file with the style rules. I > > > >>>> plan > > > >>>> to extend this to allow more "standard" approaches to style > > > >>>> definitions > > > >>>> such as SLD, when I get to that point we can then create the > > > >>>> save/load > > > >>>> style from file functionality. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I'm just working on the UI aspects of defining the styles, hopefully > > > >>>> I'll have something to share soon, > > > >>>> Paul > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Giuseppe Aruta wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> Dear Developers > > > >>>>> After using Openjump for a while I wrote some > > > >>>>> observations and ideas that I had (as user, not as > > > >>>>> developer). > > > >>>>> I do not want to open a discussion, and probabily some > > > >>>>> of these points have no "common feeling" or probabily > > > >>>>> always had answer. > > > >>>>> I want only to share with you my experience as > > > >>>>> newcomer in Openjump, and also the feeling I had from > > > >>>>> other people I bring to Openjump > > > >>>>> I write them in order of importance (my personal > > > >>>>> point of view, of coarse!) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 1) Export display parameters of a layer to other > > > >>>>> projects. > > > >>>>> The displayed parameters of a dataset (colours of > > > >>>>> lines, polygons, fill, winth, etc) are saved only in > > > >>>>> the program file (.JMP). Neverthess, if people want to > > > >>>>> use the same dataset in a different project, they must > > > >>>>> setup again the displayes parameters. > > > >>>>> At the beginning I thought that "View>Tranform layer > > > >>>>> Style into SLID" was the function to use. I had to > > > >>>>> change my idea. > > > >>>>> A function in Openjump that saves displayed > > > >>>>> parameters of a dataset to, for example, a sepatate > > > >>>>> extra XML or TXT file, would be fine. This file wuold > > > >>>>> be used to display again the same parameters when the > > > >>>>> dataset is opened again in other projects > > > >>>>> I have no idea about the difficulties for developers > > > >>>>> to build this function. > > > >>>>> The proposal is to have two extra functions on Layer > > > >>>>> Menu: "Save Layer Properties to (?) file" and a "Load > > > >>>>> Layer Properties from (?) file". > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 2) Setup question. > > > >>>>> I started to suggest Openjump to my friends or > > > >>>>> students. > > > >>>>> The main difficulty I found with people is connected > > > >>>>> to Java machine. > > > >>>>> Some people do not setup well JAVA machine so > > > >>>>> Openjump does't work. > > > >>>>> Some other "Windows" people simply don't understand to > > > >>>>> "click on Openjum.bat" file to run Openjump. They > > > >>>>> expect the launcher on the desktop (and .bat still > > > >>>>> remember them the ol'good difficult DOS). > > > >>>>> I started to give people a version of Openjump 1.2B > > > >>>>> with Java embedded, similar to Openjump Merge. > > > >>>>> Proposal: I think it would be fine to have on the web > > > >>>>> site two versions of Openjump: a) one with setup and > > > >>>>> Java embedded for easy people, b) the second one - no > > > >>>>> java no stup - for smart people. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 3)DXF/DWG > > > >>>>> Openjump is becoming, thanks to edit/drawing tools > > > >>>>> and SVG export, a good mapping software. A lot of > > > >>>>> mapping datas are in dwg format and some people cried > > > >>>>> the absence of a dxf/dwg import option. I always > > > >>>>> recomand them the good Michael's dxf plugin. > > > >>>>> Proposal: If Michael agrees, this plugin could be > > > >>>>> embedded in Openjump. > > > >>>>> Regarding dwg I image it is only a problem of time. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 4) Save file observation. > > > >>>>> There is still some confusion for newcomers about the > > > >>>>> difference betwee "Save Datasets as file..." and "Save > > > >>>>> dataset as..". (See Michael and Uwe discussion in > > > >>>>> [JPP-Devel] Load/Save dataset design). > > > >>>>> I tried to point out in a help documentation I posted > > > >>>>> some weeks ago. Nevertheless there are still newcomers > > > >>>>> who use "Save dataset as.." ... and they forget the > > > >>>>> suffix! I belive, like Uwe, that it is important to > > > >>>>> have a suffix built automatically. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 5) PostGIS > > > >>>>> I think it's time to transalte Uwe's Portgis tutorial > > > >>>>> in English (if Uwe agrees, of coarse) maybe integrated > > > >>>>> with how to use Orbiscad and Openjump together. > > > >>>>> Proposal: Does somebody thranslate from German to > > > >>>>> English (otherwise this summer I will try to refresh > > > >>>>> my scarse German with Uwe's documentation)? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 6)Editing tools (not very seriuos!) > > > >>>>> It would be nice to have some editing tools in a > > > >>>>> "Inkscape-like" style. > > > >>>>> Examples, tranfering some editing tools on the mouse: > > > >>>>> a) one left-click mouse>edit/move object > > > >>>>> b) two left click mouse>edit/move verticles > > > >>>>> c) three left-click mouse>free rotation > > > >>>>> This probabiy makes Openjump editing tools more > > > >>>>> "international-ized" > > > >>>>> Is this something difficuld to build? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Thanks for your attention > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Peppe > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ___________________________________ > > > >>>>> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! > > > >>>>> Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > >>>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > >>>>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > > >>>>> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > >>>>> Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > >>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > >>>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > > >>>> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > >>>> Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> http://amusingprogrammer.blogspot.com/ > > > >>> > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > >>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > >>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. 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Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ _______________________________________________ Jump-pilot-devel mailing list Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel
