On Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 03:23:22PM +1300 or thereabouts, Simon Britnell wrote:
> I wasn't originally stating that women in general or women at linuxchix
> specifically are pushing quotas ( and you're right, quotas are what's worrying
> me ). What I was trying to express is that I think complaining about
> demographics leads to quotas which ( as you say ) are a *bad* quick-fix.
Complaining about demographics leads to quotas? I don't see this,
myself.
> My original post actually had little to do with linuxchix and a lot to do with
> some 'academic' individuals statement in an article published on a peice of
> dead tree. I was (originally) looking to gauge opinion on the subject.
You mentioned a comment by someone to the effect of "We need to
encourage more women into IT". That's the one that set you off?
I don't see anything wrong with that. "Encourage" doesn't mean
"set quotas". To me, it means that when someone expresses an
interest, they don't get a load of rebuffs but instead "Welcome
aboard" or "Go for it".
>From the comments so far, it seems that I am not the only one
who thinks that way. For the record, I also think that women
already in the industry are powerful role-models, that role-models
are a good thing, and that more women visibly in IT would be a
good thing, because it encourages others who perhaps might not
have had the confidence without knowing that it could be done
and there were people out there who showed that. (ugh, long
sentence)
If at least some of the women in IT were able to report that they
had received none of the shit that most people here are all too well
aware of, that would be -really- cool. At the moment, most women
who have posted to the thread have stories of discrimination based
on gender rather than ability; and many of the men posting have seen
this in action, too.
So although the first part is happening to some extent, the second
half isn't. Yet. We can hope. And rather than living in hope, we
can try to do something, though what that something is will vary
from person to person. It might be bringing the issue of
unconscious - or conscious - discrimination up in the workplace;
it might simply be expressing approval or encouragement to a
woman or schoolgirl who wants to work with computers and avoiding
comments which make it sound like it's somehow an odd choice
and that they should reconsider.
I really do believe that as well as big movements towards change,
little things make a cumulative difference; and consequently,
the simple things like saying "Cool, go for it" rather than
"Really? Why?" to people help. A bit. But it needs lots of
people to do it :)
> > They are NOT a creation of the women who are trying to get ourselves and
> > our children a fair chance in the world.
>
> Are you sure you speak for that entire group of women?
> I see that they are not something you approve of.
Which aren't? The quotas, or that group of women? I am confused
here :)
Telsa
************
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
