> > they do? then why is it I'm not drinking MS lemonade at home? (ie. I'm not
> > using MS at home) infact I was raised on Apple-lemonade for many years..
> > hmmms
>
> you were raised on apple juice, different product, and it was in a
> cup...because the glasses won't hold applejuice, silly!
>
> Remember, in the OEM discussion, we are talking about PC resellers, and
> MacOS doesn't run on intel hardware (to my knowledge, anyway!) Apple is an
> interesting case, but doesn't really come into play here.
The Macintosh IS a PC... and for their platform they ARE controling who
makes the hardware, who makes the OS, Who can license their product to
VERY extreme degrees... they are keeping other vendors like BeOS from
alowing thier OS to run on thier current platforms... to get apple juice
you have to buy thier cups, napkins, straws, AND glasses! Since you
stating that they aren't in the same field as microsoft.. then what ever
field they are in THEY have a monoply!
> and people, partially because of FUD, partially because of
> already-made-purchases and partically because of really good marketing,
> think they can't drink any other version of 'ade', and they don't want to
> buy plastic cups because they are more expensive and have fewer apps
> written for them (have we mixed our metaphores enough, yet <G>)
>
> > Nah I'll just make a glass that will de-alergize from limes (ie. run a
> > diffrent system)
>
> but you can't -- People are already convinced that they are allergic --
> and as a small end-retailer (or even as a gateway - or - compaq sized
> retailer) you can't do a whole heck of a lot about those attitudes fast
> enough to save yourself. Compaq two years ago *could* have done an
> advertising campaign with, say, OS/2, telling people how good it is, and
> *only* selling OS/2 computers, but at best, they would have lost serious
> money for several quarters, and there's a really good chance it would have
> been a suicidal move. Stock holders, board members and general powers that
> be don't allow those sorts of things. Altruism and capitalism are not
> friendly bedfellows.
>
> > umm no.. no I don't
>
> um...for all the reasons I've outlined, yes you do, if you intend to
> survive
If you want to survive playing by microsofts rules and want to use thier
product..
hmm maybe this will be answered later.. but I don't understand how a
product they made becomes an object someone else can control...
>
> > If I want to sell a product created by microsoft I should be obligated to
> > follow MS agreements since I did not create thier product.. They
> > created/baught/copied/etc.. it.. they own it..
>
> here's the problem, you *have* to sell MS's product in order to survive,
> and you have to get it at the same price as everyone else in order to
> remain competative in order to survive, hence, you have to get MS's
> product at the same price everyone else is getting it at in order to
> survive. Got that?
I don't belive this is the case... VAlinux systems, penguin computing,
thelinuxstore, etc... have been doing just fine.. heck microway sells both
types of systems and sells linux systems for less...
> in order to get it at the same price as everyone else, you have to
> completely quit offering other competing products (OS/2, linux, whatever)
to maintain a cheap computer with MS product business.. certianly..
>
> Hence, the bully has just threatened to pummle you into hummus if you sell
> someone else's stuff.
speaking of hummus.. my brother makes the best hummus.. but I digress
:)...
you don't have to be in that business... it's your choice.. if I went into
business selling aquawidgets with caps on them.. and the company that
created those aquawidgets decides to stop selling them.. my business would
likely go under.. however I don't have the right to tell the aquawidget
people that they HAVE to sell thier aquawidgets to me.. the aquawidget
people have just (in your eyes) pummled me to death.. I'm guessing we have
diffrent definitions of being pummled.. refusing to sell a creation to
someone is a right.. in my eyes atleast.. so perhaps it's right for big
vinnie to pummel me ;)
> > Again *I* would be making the choice to deal in MS products.. and in doing
> > so *I* have to deal with MS on thier terms...
>
> You have a choice, deal with MS or die. Some choice.
As stated earlyer there are other choices...
>
> > Microsoft created a product (well serval actualy).. and thusly should be
> > able to sell thier product as they see fit.. THEY own the product.. not
> > the government, not you, not me..
>
> Yes. To a point. I can use anything I own in any way I want, for the most
> part. But I'm not allowed to stand at the end of the apartment hallway and
> drop used computer bits on the heads of folks passing by.
ahh you hit one of my "stopgap" trees :).. to me this is physical assult
against the rights of another..
>
> Their right to sell their product as they see fit ended when they abused
> their power,
the "power" they own is one that was created by customer demand.. once
customer demand goes away.. it's gone... the "abuse" as you see it.. I
personaly prefer "ruthless and bullyness"... or perhaps just ness :) hehe
ANYWAYS.... at what point is something "abuse of power" when someone
creates a product and selectivly sells it to people...
>just as my right to use my used computer bits as I see fit
> ends when I start dropping them on people's heads.
>
> > It provides rights and power to all.. and it's not "anti-government"..
> > rather a government that makes sense... gives individuals more
> > self-governing power
>
> Compared with many things, it's anti-government...it might be more
> accurate to say it's anti-government power. And I don't necessarily
> disagree with that.
nods
>
> > how much control do you have over your rights?
>
> Some. More than I have over the rights that are being eroded quickly by
> corporations. (my right to privacy, my right to products that are what
> they say they are, my right to food that isn't contaminated, my right to
> food that is labled if it is contminated -- remember, I'm the one who
> knows exactly how hard certain issues with labling and BGH and GE foods
> were fought. I don't necessarily care about government mandated labeling,
> but the corps were trying to make it illegal to honestly say that your
> product *didn't* contain such things!)
again consumer demand drives corporate decisions... unless government
decisions influence them otherwise..
when I buy electronic devices (like a powerstrip).. I look for items that
are "UL" listed... Underwriters Labs is a private entity.. yet does a
goodjob of ensuring that powersrips are safe.. it is my option to buy a
cheaper product that isn't "UL"... if there was no government regulation..
I think you would quickly find "UL" type markings on food items..
>
> > it values rights of people over governments
>
> Bullshit
> It values rights of some people who own stuff over rights of other people
how so?
> BS. My life is *already* run by corporations. Yours is too, you're just
> too used to it to see it (don't feel bad, though. Most people are, to
> varying degrees)
corporations make money based on demand.. as an end result consumers make
the choice.. I would hardly consider this "life run by corporations".. I
will admit that I'm enslaved by job.. though my job is not my life.. just
most of it :)
>
> > Which problem would it make worse?
>
>Corporations
> already tell you what you can eat,
How do they tell me what I can eat? Shoppers Food Warehouse and Fresh
Fields have huge selections of food..
> control 99% of the media in your city
Would you rather the government control the media more?
> control what you wear,
Ohh.. DO explain this one to me PLEASE!... The laws of the land seem to
control what can be worn more then corporations.. I'm very confused by
this..
> certain extent you can escape a fair chunk of it. I shop at the food coop,
> I buy clothes second hand, I don't own a television, I do read one of the
> big dailies, and both the free tabloids (all of those being coorporate
> papers), but I also read a bunch of small rags, not to mention the news
> that gets dumped in my email box from other sources. It's amazing what
> *doesn't* get covered in the newspapers. It's even more amazing what does,
> after awhile.
the things you read.. exsist because of demand.. this is a good thing
right?
>
> In a manner, to control media is to control thought. Give that a thought.
To control education is to control thought. Give that a thought :)
> Ever wondered why mainstream media feels threatened by the internet? Why
> Internet Addiction gets discussed on the TV news while TV addiction does
> not? Why a lot of (non wired) folks think that the 'net is porn and
> violence?
>
> I don't think it's just because porn and violence makes for
> sensationalistic stories (thought that's part of it too)
to some degree I think it's a battle that mainstream media is fighting,
but I think they realize that the battle to slow down the internet is
being lost... and that they are causing MORE intrest, not less..
certainly anytime I see a "look at this site.. see how horrible the net
is!".. I WANT TO SEE IT :) hehe
>
> > the only one with these views here (exausting I tell you).. at the request
>
> I think this is one of the most intelligent forums I know of. Maybe that
> should tell you something.
I'm sorry if I"ve tarnished it.. in anyway...
>
> > Sounds good to me :).. I think nothing should be done :)..
>
> I'm glad you're not a federal judge ;)
hehe :)
>
> > buddist use engulfiling self in flame to protest..
> > random though :) please don't take this action :)
>
> <grin> I won't, but we are going to learn to eat fire :P
Young woman brings WTO to it's knees by BREATHING FIRE!! (film at 11)
>
> Vinnie
> --
> a safe place for all of the pieces that scatter
> learn to pretend there's more than love that matters - e saliers
> Obligatory pathetic website at http://george.he.net/~drachen
> GAT d? H- s---:+ !g !p au+ a- w+++ v++ C++++ UL++++ P+ L++ !3 E--- N+ K++
> !W M V po--- Y++ t+ 5 jx R G' !tv b+++ !D B e* u** h-- f+ r n---- z?
>
>
> ************
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
>
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