On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, srl wrote:
> Okay, first, I didn't mean to start a flame-fest. Can we bring it back
> down to a reasonable level?
I don't think anyone here is flaming. Why don't you think it's a
reasonable level and what would be?
> and it's fine if they want that, but i feel like too often
> white-picket-fence is the normative ideal, and anyone who doesn't want it
> (particularly females) takes a lot of shit.
agreed, too. We aren't arguing mutually-exclusive points here
> I didn't mean it that way. I actually think that what I suggested (taking
> care of oneself emotionally) is done by relatively few people that our
> culture labels "responsible adults". I think a lot of kids and
> non-"normal" people do a better job at emotional well-being than do people
> who spend lots of time trying to fit the mold.
True enough. I didn't read Simon's response as attacking *you*, btw, but
the general 'mature, responsible adult' attitude, which you (possibly
completely unintentionally, apparently not fully intentionally :) )
invoked. Again, we aren't actually arguing mutually exclusive points :)
> That may be how you feel about what i said based on your experience. That
> wasn't my sentiment.
It really wasn't clear in your post which one you meant. I considered
responding with something similar (I probably wouldn't have put as much
emotion in it, which is, in part, what I think you're reacting to, though
I'm hardly omniscient :) , but it *wasn't* clear, and that attititude is
hurting people -- not *your* attitude, but *that* attitude...)
> And I've seen people of various genders get royally fucked up from
> feeling like it was their personal mission to prop up their
> clinically-depressed partner. I think nurturing is all well and good, so
> long as one doesn't do it at the expense of hir own well-being. I've
> seen lots of nurturers who wouldn't have gotten depressed themselves if
> they'd encouraged their partners to go to therapy.
I'll agree with the fact that nurturers need to watch their own well-being
as well (It's bitten me a few times). I'm not sure I agree with the
therapy statement, but my problems with the psych establishment are long
and varied. I expect there's just no easy answer to the question of 'what
do you do with an SO that's determined to off themselves?' or even 'what
do you do with yourself/an SO when it's just gotten to be too much?'
> I didn't mean to be offensive or judgmental with what i wrote--- i was
> intentionally overstating. I do think, however, that our society
> encourages people to find a relationship instead of learning to be whole
> people on their own. That's all i was saying.
Agreed. You just managed to say it in a way that was a little insulting to
a few of us (at least two of us). Neither of us (well, I didn't, and I
didn't read Simon's reply as, though if he says he did, you may certainly
laugh at me and tell me to shut my big mouth) was attacking you, merely
what you said, which largely doesn't appear to be what you meant it to say
:)
Vinnie (yeah, communicating in email has it's challenges)
************
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
