On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Simon Britnell wrote:
> Some people *want* that - on both sides. I don't understand it, but
> some people seem to like that white picket fence stuff.
Yeah. I've noticed that too. I guess I don't see the point in getting
annoyed over that. If they *want* their relationships to be that way, then
fine. If they *want* tacky pink flamingos in their yard, whatever :P It's
when it starts affecting other people that it really bothers me.
> Gender politics be d*mned. There's no gender monopoly on having "bad"
> reasons to want a partner.
True :) But there is a faction of folks (in the U.S.) who would like to
force the picket fences on all of us, and that is worth worry about...but
I didn't see Roblimo's artical as part of that..just as some nitwit with
'bad' reasoning :) there's no law against stupidity :)
> > I think it's part of being a responsible adult to take care of your own
> > life-- from doing the laundry to maintaining emotional well-being.
>
> Uh oh. Cliched phrase hits a nerve. Brace yourselves people, this
> could be ugly. This intro line was written after the rant below -
> here-in, the rant:
>
> **** RANT ****
>
> Yes mommy (gotta love that sarcasm). "Being a responsible adult" is a
> phrase I singularly dislike. It pretty much translates to "I think you
> should behave like this and if you disagree with me you're just a little
> child". It tends to be used by those who think we should be "normal".
> "Get a haircut and get a real job" is a more "offensive" (but probably
> more honest and direct) form of the same clause.
I agree. I haven't had the energy to tackle this side of the issue, and
I"m glad you did. First, because it's really not good to say 'if you don't
think like me, you aren't an adult' because it stops the discussion short
-- there's no room for debate in there. Second, because it's degrading to
children.
> Ever seen someone jump from a bridge? Anyone you know ever swing
> themselves from the ceiling? Ever consider doing it yourself? Ever
> have a conversation with somebody clinically depressed? Every wonder
> after the fact why you didn't spot the obvious pain? I can tick all
> those boxes and I'm telling you that there's more to it than "maturity".
> I translate your statement as "I don't want to deal with peoples
> emotional cr*p.".
I've lived it. Actually (and I'm saying this mostly because I'm pretty
damn happy about it) for the first time in ages (I don't even remember
when it started..it had stopped for a while in Cali, and I guess must have
picked up in Olympia, but I don't know when) I could *count* the number of
suicidal thoughts I had today. As of 10:01pm it's 23..and they were all
mild. This is great because it's been months, literally, since I've had a
day where I haven't gone through hours of 'you should kill yourself
because' from the depths of my brain. What really peeves me about this is
that the reaction from a lot of people (even mental health professionals)
is that, if you talk about suicide, you are 'just trying to get attention'
and won't try it. It's only if you *don't* talk about it that you're
dangerous. And while, yes, if I happen to tell you I'm suicidal and
scared I am trying to get your attention, it's because I think you might
be able to help me stop thinking that, *not* because I need a life. (as it
turns out, I had given up on getting any help and have just been living
with it for the last two months or so, and toying with the idea of getting
a shrink...suddenly out of the blue it's gotten better...I quit smoking
last week and I'm beginnign to wonder if there's a connection, since I
think it might have started when I started smoking very regularly, but I'm
not sure...)
The point to all that, was quite simply, I'm sick of hearing folks try to
brush off people's very real problems with 'that's childish' -- it's
insulting to adults in pain and it's insulting to children. If you can't
say something supportive, don't say anything at all. Or at least *think*
abotu what you are saying.
<sigh> I've lived it from the other side too, but I think everybody has...
> I don't blame you, neither do I. On the other hand I consider dealing
> with it a valuable contribution to the world. There are people who cope
> badly with life socially, emotionally or financially, but who do a good
> job & contribute to society in other ways. There are also people who
> are "nurturers" who get satisfaction and fullfilment from propping up
> those people. I often see self righteous "offended" peoples comments
> and I wonder: How many of those people cry themselves to sleep at night
> every night and how often have they considered ending it all to be out
> of everybodys way. Labelling people who fail to maintain their own
> emotional equilibrium or keep a tidy house as immature makes the problem
> worse. Want to let them sink or swim on their own? Fine. Just don't go
> throwing them heavy weights and don't stop others from jumping in after
> them. I don't live in that self-loathing hell anymore, but the pain
> left deep scars so please forgive me if my response is a little rabid.
> BTW: thinking that you should have saved someone after the fact isn't so
> hot either.
You rock. You just said everything I was thinking. whee! :)
> Somebody who likes a lot of time to themselves for one thing or another.
> Somebody who likes to go out a lot with their friends and can do without
> the baggage. Somebody with their own projects. Somebody who takes in
> stray cats. Somebody who's prepared to put up with it for some other
> perceived benefit. Somebody with any other inscrutable motivations I
> haven't thought of. A masochist of some description?
Exactly..there are a lot of motivations for things..just because roblimo
would not be *your* preferred date doesn't necessarily make him
evil..selfish, perhaps..but if his wife doesn't mind, that's their
business...
Vinnie
************
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
