But what about the AI that develops autonomously? Remember Mike (Mycroft) from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (Heinlein) and TANSTAAFL (still true today - so many people forget). AI might not be "developed" directly, which then rules out having any "rules".
Russell -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of scott Ford Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colossus, Strangelove, etc. was: Developers say... Joel, I agree I am a huge sci-fi fan and believe in the sciences over utter stupidity. Lionel your point is well taken. I am guilty too, but when you have strong feelings , which sometimes part of ADHD , it’s called RSD ( Reject Sensitive Dysphoria ). I have both ... Scott On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:22 AM Lionel B Dyck <lbd...@gmail.com> wrote: > Joel - can we please keep politics out of this listserv. Personally I > wouldn't trust anyone in power to act against their own self interests > and that applies to politicians and anyone else with power (as in > money, influence, etc.). > > There are altruistic individuals in the world and when it comes to the > development of an AI robot one prays/hopes that those are the software > developers who implement the code for the three laws. > > > Lionel B. Dyck <sdg>< > Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com > > "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is > what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John > Wooden > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On > Behalf Of Joel C. Ewing > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:12 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Colossus, Strangelove, etc. was: Developers say... > > I've greatly enjoyed Asimov's vision of future possibilities, but when > I step back to reality it occurs to me that his perfect laws of > robotics would have to be implemented by fallible human programmers. > Even if well-intentioned, how would they unambiguously convey to a > robot the concepts of "human", "humanity", "hurt", and "injure" when > there have always been minorities or "others" that are treated by one > group of humans as sub-human to justify injuring them in the name of > "protecting" > them or protecting humanity? And then there is the issue of who might > make the decision to build sentient robots: For example, who in our > present White House would you trust to pay any heed to logic or > scientific recommendations or long-term consequences, if they were > given the opportunity to construct less-constrained AI robots that > they perceived offered some short-term political advantage? > > Humanity was also fortunate that when the hardware of Asimov's Daneel > began to fail, that he failed gracefully, rather than becoming a > menace to humanity. > Joel C Ewing > > On 5/11/20 8:43 AM, scott Ford wrote: > > Well done Joel....I agree , But I can help to to be curious about > > the future of AI. > > a bit of Isaac Asimov .... > > > > Scott > > > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:25 AM Joel C. Ewing <jcew...@acm.org> wrote: > > > >> And of course the whole point of Colossus, Dr Strangelove, War > >> Games, Terminator, Forbidden Planet, Battlestar Galactica, etc. > >> was to try to make it clear to all the non-engineers and > >> non-programmers (all of whom greatly outnumber us) why putting > >> lethal force in the hands of any autonomous or even semi-autonomous > >> machine is something with incredible potential to go wrong. We all > >> know that even if the hardware doesn't fail, which it inevitably > >> will, that all software above a certain level of complexity is > >> guaranteed to have bugs with unknown consequences. > >> There is another equally cautionary genre in sci-fi about > >> society becoming so dependent on machines as to lose the knowledge > >> to understand and maintain the machines, resulting in total > >> collapse when the machines inevitably fail. I still remember my > >> oldest sister > reading E.M. > >> Forster, "The Machine Stops" (1909), to me when I was very young. > >> Various Star Trek episodes used both of these themes as plots. > >> People can also break down with lethal side effects, but the > >> potential damage one person can create is more easily contained by > >> other people. The only effective way to defend again a berserk lethal > >> machine may be with another lethal machine, and Colossus-Guardian > >> suggests why that may be an even worse idea. > >> Joel C Ewing > >> > >> On 5/11/20 4:54 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >>> Strangelove was twisted because the times were twisted. We're ripe > >>> for a > >> similar parody on our own times. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > >> behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 [peter.far...@broadridge.com] > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:39 PM > >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > >>> Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' > >> programming language of 2020 > >>> For relatively recent fare, I agree 100% - "Person of Interest" > >>> leads > >> the pack. My favorite oldie -- "Let's play Global Thermonuclear War . > . . > >> " (War Games), right after Dr. Strangelove of course, simply > >> because it was so twisted. > >>> Mutual Assured Destruction indeed. Is SkyNet far away? > >>> > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On > >> Behalf Of Bob Bridges > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:21 PM > >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > >>> Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' > >> programming language of 2020 > >>> I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Not many people > >>> have > >> seen it, as far as I can tell. > >>> The only problem I have with that movie - well, the main problem - > >>> is > >> that no programmer in the world would make such a system and then > >> throw away the Stop button. No engineer would do that with a > >> machine he built, either. Too many things can go wrong. > >>> But a fun movie, if you can ignore that. > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > >>> > >>> /* The only thing UFO aliens deserve is to be ignored...and when > >>> we > >> finally develop the right missiles, to have their smug, silvery > >> little butts shot down. Not a single reported UFO sighting -- if > >> true! -- describes the behavior of decent, polite, honorable > >> visitors > to our world. > >> -David Brin in a 1998 on-line interview */ > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > >>> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > >> On Behalf Of scott Ford > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38 > >>> > >>> Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’, > >>> > >>> Colossus and American computer and Guardian a Russian computer > >>> take over > >> saying ‘ Colossus and Guardian we are one’, or better yet My > >> favorite show, ‘Person of Interest’..... > >>> ... > >> > >> -- > >> Joel C. Ewing > >> > >> > >> > > -- > Joel C. Ewing > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Scott Ford IDMWORKS z/OS Development ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
