Russell: Yep , exactly, AI's that develop themselves , think Person of Interest , had a list of all the social security numbers of people that needed help and at Midnight did a complete refresh of that list. A very interesting concept.
Scott On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:06 PM Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: > Well, Heinlein's explanation was bafflegab, but think neural nets; they > have to be trained rather than programmed. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Russell Witt [0000025adb32e6d7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:52 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Colossus, Strangelove, etc. was: Developers say... > > But what about the AI that develops autonomously? Remember Mike (Mycroft) > from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (Heinlein) and TANSTAAFL (still true > today - so many people forget). AI might not be "developed" directly, which > then rules out having any "rules". > > Russell > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of scott Ford > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:51 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Colossus, Strangelove, etc. was: Developers say... > > Joel, > > I agree I am a huge sci-fi fan and believe in the sciences over utter > stupidity. > Lionel your point is well taken. I am guilty too, but when you have strong > feelings , which sometimes part of ADHD , it’s called RSD ( Reject > Sensitive Dysphoria ). > I have both ... > > Scott > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:22 AM Lionel B Dyck <lbd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Joel - can we please keep politics out of this listserv. Personally I > > wouldn't trust anyone in power to act against their own self interests > > and that applies to politicians and anyone else with power (as in > > money, influence, etc.). > > > > There are altruistic individuals in the world and when it comes to the > > development of an AI robot one prays/hopes that those are the software > > developers who implement the code for the three laws. > > > > > > Lionel B. Dyck <sdg>< > > Website: > https://secure-web.cisco.com/10rW9HRt3rzwxzpQwZHaIaC_lBpBXktWnjqey9MYD8CTNRZehiZ-cQm-wjOlPtpza0yh2Q10-0KdT_XcArRjoeQ2nMiLt61252ye4hPTKFuPXgrYELwQ54ioOLkR-FEGH68FsHXY145RqiE1b97NrhE7o2clkfWGlhPy4F22jGvW6jjJwZoNwOx_dD5DdA6cOy-OO7TwEgYNdCD5EJ4IN51GSWLIYW-JGV4c_TaAon7_kL_nRItaZXmspnf7KySHBu5WuvaH4pKwaq4YARZjZT50Ltdv63kKUvQ72XSRiO7-aCszqGoWi4CU0gh--4qDLpQsD5sQH0UhbJfJkZKPzfZoGfFDT12X_BzTNKk0CYbrB-yKyMQlyr3pXTBSYUcc74hMt2il56Km4CzPi85cLM1YuDxBMjeMeZMa1sXtneJ86iw1PpGfx__Tkz8En7xH8/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com > > > > "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is > > what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John > > Wooden > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On > > Behalf Of Joel C. Ewing > > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:12 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Colossus, Strangelove, etc. was: Developers say... > > > > I've greatly enjoyed Asimov's vision of future possibilities, but when > > I step back to reality it occurs to me that his perfect laws of > > robotics would have to be implemented by fallible human programmers. > > Even if well-intentioned, how would they unambiguously convey to a > > robot the concepts of "human", "humanity", "hurt", and "injure" when > > there have always been minorities or "others" that are treated by one > > group of humans as sub-human to justify injuring them in the name of > "protecting" > > them or protecting humanity? And then there is the issue of who might > > make the decision to build sentient robots: For example, who in our > > present White House would you trust to pay any heed to logic or > > scientific recommendations or long-term consequences, if they were > > given the opportunity to construct less-constrained AI robots that > > they perceived offered some short-term political advantage? > > > > Humanity was also fortunate that when the hardware of Asimov's Daneel > > began to fail, that he failed gracefully, rather than becoming a > > menace to humanity. > > Joel C Ewing > > > > On 5/11/20 8:43 AM, scott Ford wrote: > > > Well done Joel....I agree , But I can help to to be curious about > > > the future of AI. > > > a bit of Isaac Asimov .... > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:25 AM Joel C. Ewing <jcew...@acm.org> wrote: > > > > > >> And of course the whole point of Colossus, Dr Strangelove, War > > >> Games, Terminator, Forbidden Planet, Battlestar Galactica, etc. > > >> was to try to make it clear to all the non-engineers and > > >> non-programmers (all of whom greatly outnumber us) why putting > > >> lethal force in the hands of any autonomous or even semi-autonomous > > >> machine is something with incredible potential to go wrong. We all > > >> know that even if the hardware doesn't fail, which it inevitably > > >> will, that all software above a certain level of complexity is > > >> guaranteed to have bugs with unknown consequences. > > >> There is another equally cautionary genre in sci-fi about > > >> society becoming so dependent on machines as to lose the knowledge > > >> to understand and maintain the machines, resulting in total > > >> collapse when the machines inevitably fail. I still remember my > > >> oldest sister > > reading E.M. > > >> Forster, "The Machine Stops" (1909), to me when I was very young. > > >> Various Star Trek episodes used both of these themes as plots. > > >> People can also break down with lethal side effects, but the > > >> potential damage one person can create is more easily contained by > > >> other people. The only effective way to defend again a berserk > lethal > > >> machine may be with another lethal machine, and Colossus-Guardian > > >> suggests why that may be an even worse idea. > > >> Joel C Ewing > > >> > > >> On 5/11/20 4:54 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > >>> Strangelove was twisted because the times were twisted. We're ripe > > >>> for a > > >> similar parody on our own times. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > >>> > > >>> ________________________________________ > > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > >> behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 [peter.far...@broadridge.com] > > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:39 PM > > >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > >>> Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' > > >> programming language of 2020 > > >>> For relatively recent fare, I agree 100% - "Person of Interest" > > >>> leads > > >> the pack. My favorite oldie -- "Let's play Global Thermonuclear War . > > . . > > >> " (War Games), right after Dr. Strangelove of course, simply > > >> because it was so twisted. > > >>> Mutual Assured Destruction indeed. Is SkyNet far away? > > >>> > > >>> Peter > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On > > >> Behalf Of Bob Bridges > > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:21 PM > > >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > >>> Subject: Re: Developers say Google's Go is 'most sought after' > > >> programming language of 2020 > > >>> I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Not many people > > >>> have > > >> seen it, as far as I can tell. > > >>> The only problem I have with that movie - well, the main problem - > > >>> is > > >> that no programmer in the world would make such a system and then > > >> throw away the Stop button. No engineer would do that with a > > >> machine he built, either. Too many things can go wrong. > > >>> But a fun movie, if you can ignore that. > > >>> > > >>> --- > > >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > >>> > > >>> /* The only thing UFO aliens deserve is to be ignored...and when > > >>> we > > >> finally develop the right missiles, to have their smug, silvery > > >> little butts shot down. Not a single reported UFO sighting -- if > > >> true! -- describes the behavior of decent, polite, honorable > > >> visitors > > to our world. > > >> -David Brin in a 1998 on-line interview */ > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > >>> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > > >> On Behalf Of scott Ford > > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38 > > >>> > > >>> Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’, > > >>> > > >>> Colossus and American computer and Guardian a Russian computer > > >>> take over > > >> saying ‘ Colossus and Guardian we are one’, or better yet My > > >> favorite show, ‘Person of Interest’..... > > >>> ... > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Joel C. Ewing > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > -- > > Joel C. Ewing > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > Scott Ford > IDMWORKS > z/OS Development > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- *IDMWORKS * Scott Ford z/OS Dev. “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a friend or collegue you demean yourself” www.idmworks.com scott.f...@idmworks.com Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog *The information contained in this email message and any attachment may be privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected from disclosure. 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