Joe, Yeah I read it, it’s a great book along with “The Martian”, couldn’t put the Martian down.
Scott On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:58 PM Joe Monk <joemon...@gmail.com> wrote: > An even better story ... > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adolescence_of_P-1 > > Joe > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:31 AM Bob Bridges <robhbrid...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I'll cheerfully leave political partisanship aside. But if I may > > attribute this equally to both sides (and thus avoid partisanship), I'm > > with Joel ~and~ Lionel on this. Most folks who misuse their power start > > out, at least, in hopes of doing good. What I'm saying is that although > we > > value altruism, I don't trust even altruists in the matter of exercising > > power, especially when in pursuit of The Good of Humanity. > > > > Doesn't mean we won't keep building robots. Doesn't even mean we > > shouldn't. But even altruists can be villains. Ultron and Colossus both > > wanted to save the world, after all. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* The historian Macaulay famously said that the Puritans opposed > > bearbaiting not because it gave pain to the bears but because it gave > > pleasure to the spectators. The Puritans were right: Some pleasures are > > contemptible because they are coarsening. They are not merely private > > vices, they have public consequences in driving the culture's downward > > spiral. -George Will, "The challenge of thinking lower", 2001-06-22 */ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck > > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:22 > > > > Joel - can we please keep politics out of this listserv. Personally I > > wouldn't trust anyone in power to act against their own self interests > and > > that applies to politicians and anyone else with power (as in money, > > influence, etc.). > > > > There are altruistic individuals in the world and when it comes to the > > development of an AI robot one prays/hopes that those are the software > > developers who implement the code for the three laws. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf > > Of Joel C. Ewing > > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:12 AM > > > > I've greatly enjoyed Asimov's vision of future possibilities, but when I > > step back to reality it occurs to me that his perfect laws of robotics > > would have to be implemented by fallible human programmers. Even if > > well-intentioned, how would they unambiguously convey to a robot the > > concepts of "human", "humanity", "hurt", and "injure" when there have > > always been minorities or "others" that are treated by one group of > humans > > as sub-human to justify injuring them in the name of "protecting" > > them or protecting humanity? And then there is the issue of who might > > make the decision to build sentient robots: For example, who in our > > present White House would you trust to pay any heed to logic or > scientific > > recommendations or long-term consequences, if they were given the > > opportunity to construct less-constrained AI robots that they perceived > > offered some short-term political advantage? > > > > Humanity was also fortunate that when the hardware of Asimov's Daneel > > began to fail, that he failed gracefully, rather than becoming a menace > to > > humanity. > > > > --- On 5/11/20 8:43 AM, scott Ford wrote: > > > Well done Joel....I agree , But I can help to to be curious about the > > > future of AI. > > > a bit of Isaac Asimov .... > > > > > > --- On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:25 AM Joel C. Ewing <jcew...@acm.org> > > wrote: > > >> And of course the whole point of Colossus, Dr Strangelove, War > > >> Games, Terminator, Forbidden Planet, Battlestar Galactica, etc. was > > >> to try to make it clear to all the non-engineers and non-programmers > > >> (all of whom greatly outnumber us) why putting lethal force in the > > >> hands of any autonomous or even semi-autonomous machine is something > > >> with incredible potential to go wrong. We all know that even if the > > >> hardware doesn't fail, which it inevitably will, that all software > > >> above a certain level of complexity is guaranteed to have bugs with > > >> unknown consequences. > > >> There is another equally cautionary genre in sci-fi about society > > >> becoming so dependent on machines as to lose the knowledge to > > >> understand and maintain the machines, resulting in total collapse > > >> when the machines inevitably fail. I still remember my oldest sister > > reading E.M. > > >> Forster, "The Machine Stops" (1909), to me when I was very young. > > >> Various Star Trek episodes used both of these themes as plots. > > >> People can also break down with lethal side effects, but the > > >> potential damage one person can create is more easily contained by > > >> other people. The only effective way to defend again a berserk > lethal > > >> machine may be with another lethal machine, and Colossus-Guardian > > >> suggests why that may be an even worse idea. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: Bob Bridges > > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:21 PM > > >>> > > >>> I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Not many people > > >>> have seen it, as far as I can tell. The only problem I have with > > >>> that movie - well, the main problem - is that no programmer in the > > >>> world would make such a system and then throw away the Stop button. > > >>> No engineer would do that with a machine he built, either. Too many > > >>> things can go wrong. But a fun movie, if you can ignore that. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: scott Ford > > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38 > > >>> > > >>> Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’, Colossus and > > >>> American computer and Guardian a Russian computer take over saying > > >>> ‘Colossus and Guardian we are one’.... > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Scott Ford IDMWORKS z/OS Development ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
