I hated it; that level of AI on a 360/75? To say nothing of just reeking of sympathetic magic.
BTW, the wiki article got the origin of the name wrong; it was P-1 because it ran in partition (remember those) 1. Does anybody know whether Waterloo was actually running MVT on their 75, as seems likely? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Joe Monk [joemon...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:57 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colossus, Strangelove, etc. was: Developers say... An even better story ... https://secure-web.cisco.com/1uc-VlaG4d4DXKhOogYOQ-R2xx23bgRDSC_wr66amqQiP3JV4iUeulIhLwneXEMLW355gnqlB4IoI-jRG1gHFALOCJZl9sQ8e8Nr73-c6782R0WU_Os6gnDwja6mrvo4oEbL_nk2DGPA9VLQ0Exe0S-dzkqkiR_QD2TMZp1ymyy3ZzbvqQ2uiBr5AmjZv-6YN8D0t2QERQ6sxkP0CFe1y-bKP5oa-K6nXaOZvYymMe8_X-Gnzb7rd8PtAbJ_nvUVGQctCvIdNwiMB_Tb1TlHYTKd8P1v_Zq4JS8jYMxAfLtQ49SLQcp0C0xEMv2pyFjwP2GOpn9yn8xV2rI9EVHenvEEfd-6c-5YfcmqkJa9MsVz_4CuDg0PNqognkeutg5ISRDq5JWK6JkARt0mTZwVY_qRY4iaPoAlTaoLO_WuISso16sZExEaDfLksVO16Dw6a/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FThe_Adolescence_of_P-1 Joe On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:31 AM Bob Bridges <robhbrid...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'll cheerfully leave political partisanship aside. But if I may > attribute this equally to both sides (and thus avoid partisanship), I'm > with Joel ~and~ Lionel on this. Most folks who misuse their power start > out, at least, in hopes of doing good. What I'm saying is that although we > value altruism, I don't trust even altruists in the matter of exercising > power, especially when in pursuit of The Good of Humanity. > > Doesn't mean we won't keep building robots. Doesn't even mean we > shouldn't. But even altruists can be villains. Ultron and Colossus both > wanted to save the world, after all. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* The historian Macaulay famously said that the Puritans opposed > bearbaiting not because it gave pain to the bears but because it gave > pleasure to the spectators. The Puritans were right: Some pleasures are > contemptible because they are coarsening. They are not merely private > vices, they have public consequences in driving the culture's downward > spiral. -George Will, "The challenge of thinking lower", 2001-06-22 */ > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:22 > > Joel - can we please keep politics out of this listserv. Personally I > wouldn't trust anyone in power to act against their own self interests and > that applies to politicians and anyone else with power (as in money, > influence, etc.). > > There are altruistic individuals in the world and when it comes to the > development of an AI robot one prays/hopes that those are the software > developers who implement the code for the three laws. > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf > Of Joel C. Ewing > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:12 AM > > I've greatly enjoyed Asimov's vision of future possibilities, but when I > step back to reality it occurs to me that his perfect laws of robotics > would have to be implemented by fallible human programmers. Even if > well-intentioned, how would they unambiguously convey to a robot the > concepts of "human", "humanity", "hurt", and "injure" when there have > always been minorities or "others" that are treated by one group of humans > as sub-human to justify injuring them in the name of "protecting" > them or protecting humanity? And then there is the issue of who might > make the decision to build sentient robots: For example, who in our > present White House would you trust to pay any heed to logic or scientific > recommendations or long-term consequences, if they were given the > opportunity to construct less-constrained AI robots that they perceived > offered some short-term political advantage? > > Humanity was also fortunate that when the hardware of Asimov's Daneel > began to fail, that he failed gracefully, rather than becoming a menace to > humanity. > > --- On 5/11/20 8:43 AM, scott Ford wrote: > > Well done Joel....I agree , But I can help to to be curious about the > > future of AI. > > a bit of Isaac Asimov .... > > > > --- On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:25 AM Joel C. Ewing <jcew...@acm.org> > wrote: > >> And of course the whole point of Colossus, Dr Strangelove, War > >> Games, Terminator, Forbidden Planet, Battlestar Galactica, etc. was > >> to try to make it clear to all the non-engineers and non-programmers > >> (all of whom greatly outnumber us) why putting lethal force in the > >> hands of any autonomous or even semi-autonomous machine is something > >> with incredible potential to go wrong. We all know that even if the > >> hardware doesn't fail, which it inevitably will, that all software > >> above a certain level of complexity is guaranteed to have bugs with > >> unknown consequences. > >> There is another equally cautionary genre in sci-fi about society > >> becoming so dependent on machines as to lose the knowledge to > >> understand and maintain the machines, resulting in total collapse > >> when the machines inevitably fail. I still remember my oldest sister > reading E.M. > >> Forster, "The Machine Stops" (1909), to me when I was very young. > >> Various Star Trek episodes used both of these themes as plots. > >> People can also break down with lethal side effects, but the > >> potential damage one person can create is more easily contained by > >> other people. The only effective way to defend again a berserk lethal > >> machine may be with another lethal machine, and Colossus-Guardian > >> suggests why that may be an even worse idea. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Bob Bridges > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:21 PM > >>> > >>> I've always loved "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Not many people > >>> have seen it, as far as I can tell. The only problem I have with > >>> that movie - well, the main problem - is that no programmer in the > >>> world would make such a system and then throw away the Stop button. > >>> No engineer would do that with a machine he built, either. Too many > >>> things can go wrong. But a fun movie, if you can ignore that. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: scott Ford > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:38 > >>> > >>> Like the 1970s flick , ‘Colossus , The Forbin Project’, Colossus and > >>> American computer and Guardian a Russian computer take over saying > >>> ‘Colossus and Guardian we are one’.... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
