Nathan (and maybe any other youngster)
I think if you have some problem, you will get every support from this
newsgroup list , and if you need,
personally from me also.
Glad to see young people here.
On 06.01.2014 19:44, Nathan J Pfister wrote:
Harry has a good point. I am a 26 year old in the mainframe world, and
came into an internship with the US DoD while in my Junior Year of
college. I have seen, from the younger generation view that he pointed
out, a fair amount of the dismissive and condescending attitudes in some
of the seniors that I have worked with. That being said, there are also
quite a few seniors that I have had the fortune of working with that have
had quite the opposite affect on me personally, and they are the reason
that I have, for a bit more than 5 years now stuck with a career working
with z/OS. Maybe I am among the outliers in the research study alluded
to, but I feel that all fields have a fair amount of people in both
positions: those willing to share and listen, and those that are still
trying to live the glory days of old being very quick to dismiss any new
ideas...so I'm not sure that that is unique to the demographics of the
z/OS Systems Programmer groups.
That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and first
post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is nearly
impossible to get fired, thus making change and new ideas/people not as
much of a threat as in private industry.
Thanks;
Nathan Pfister
zOS Systems Programmer
AES\PHEAA - Tech Services
From: "Harry Wahl" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: 01/06/2014 01:34 PM
Subject: Scary Sysprogs; was: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with
us?
Sent by: "IBM Mainframe Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Interesting segue this thread has taken...
I recently attended an IBM meeting which addressed why young people are
eschewing an IBM z/OS mainframe career in favor of other platforms,
including other IBM platforms. This seems to be a very serious concern at
IBM and possibly the greatest threat to the future of z/OS.
The speaker was a woman from IBM who had been tasked by IBM management to
study this. She presented selected conclusions from her assignment. Some
results were what one would expect, many results were unexpected or at
least not typically considered in the context of z/OS's continued
viability.
One of the top reasons graduating students from the best universities will
not accept a position working on z/OS is how they feel they are (or will
be) treated by z/OS "old-timers," particularly systems programmers.
This conclusion is supported by other data indicating that students who
co-op'ed or interned in z/OS positions are far more likely to reject z/OS
as a career as opposed to those graduates who have no experience with the
z/OS environment (technically and socially).
The prevailing conjecture for this phenomena is the relatively advanced
age of z/OS people. There seems to be a phase in one's life and career
where there is a natural desire to mentor young people. It is a time when
young people are not your competition (you have accepted that you are no
longer one of them) and you are aware of the knowledge and insights your
work experiences have imbued you with and wish to express and share them
with someone who can both appreciate and benefit from them. This phase
eventually passes...obviously.
The average age of z/OS people is far beyond the average age of other
platforms' people. It is understandable that a bright graduating student,
bursting with ideas and proud of his education, would do anything to avoid
working with a group they perceive as dismissive, condescending and
disrespectful curmudgeons. Memories of being chased off lawns by grumpy
old men are still fresh in their minds.
On occasion, I lecture at top universities and my small experience
interacting with students bears this out. Students are in awe of IBM's
technology (and they should be), but they don't want to work at any job
where regaling tales of "glory days" of the past eclipses discussing
bright new ideas from fresh minds.
Students graduating now don't consider IBM mainframe technology as old and
dying. They're too young to even remember the prognostications of the
mainframe's demise.
They fear the ancient guardians of the technology will simply stifle what
they could do with it.
Harry
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 10:39:20 -0600
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us?
To: [email protected]
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes <[email protected]>
wrote:
Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you
write.
The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' stance.
This Forum is thankfully a witness to that.
The "Angry young men" have been replaced by the "PIssed off old farts"
<grin/>. Jeff Dunham's "Walter" character is our leader. <GRIN>
ALH
--
This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not enough
hunchbacks.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown
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