Have them read Introduction To The New Mainframe. Very much describes mainframes in DOS / Unix terms.
On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 4:39 AM Jack Zukt <jzuk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I can understand the windows and android analogy. And I do hate not being > able to solve windows and android problems with the ease I solve them on > z/OS. > Over the years colleagues from other areas have come to me for help with > problems on their turf, and I was able to help them because I knew how > things worked between them. Usually I could point them in the right > direction because I understood MVS. I did have to learn a bit of windows, a > few years ago, so I could solve the problems that my father had on his pc. > But sometimes I would have to reinstall windows to solve them. And that is > not an option with z/OS. So, I suppose we are going into a new way of > working that will be fully automated installations and IA maintenence. I > did try zosmf a few years ago. I did not like the underneath complexity > then and I still do not like it now. > This is supposed to be a tool to install anything and everything, and to be > a worflow to multiple maintenence tasks. The amount of RACF definitions and > authorizations are staggering. > Sometimes I do wonder if the way I look at zosmf has more to do with my age > than with the product itself. I delegated the zosmf implementation to my > much younger colleagues, so that my prejudices would not get in the way. > But what I can say at this point is that they have managed to install it > and, I think, they have managed to use it. However they have learned > nothing that will help them to understand what is beneath it. They still do > not grasp basic z/OS concepts. I still think that the best way to learn MVS > is to build one from scratch. Unfortunately that is something seldom done. > But moving your systems to a new server pack is the best alternative. > There is no point bitching about zosmf and the good old days, as this is > the way IBM is building it now. But Windows and android are not stable and > reliable systems. At least, not the ones I have running on my devices. > Jack > > On Fri, May 26, 2023, 17:38 Phil Smith III <li...@akphs.com> wrote: > > > Jack Zukt wrote, in part: > > >The real problem, as I see it, is that drag and drop interfaces move you > > >away from the need to know what you are doing. > > > > That’s the *goal*. Do you know what the Windows installer is doing? > > Android? iOS? No you do not, beyond the high-level “putting **** in places” > > and “making it bootable”. While it makes me nervous because, like you, I’ve > > been doing this for too long, most people see this as a good thing, and I > > can’t really dispute it. > > > > In 1920, if you had a car, you understood air/fuel mixture, how to do oil > > and tire changes, etc. Most people don’t now, and that’s not a bad thing. > > Sure, occasionally they get stranded, but by and large, it Just Works. > > > > On the flip side, I was switching phones and the migration failed. I did a > > reset of the new phone and restarted it, and it worked the second time. Did > > I understand the process? No. Did I need to? No. Am I happy that I couldn’t > > tell what failed? Not really, but, again, I really didn’t need to. And > > 99.44% of people wouldn’t care, as long as it worked the second try. > > > > and Colin Paice asked: > > >Would it help if we moved to standard configurations? > > > > That’s the point I made before: with Windows, you’re forced into a fairly > > standard configuration. With z/OS, it’s a bit late (by almost six decades): > > sites aren’t going to rearrange everything. For new installs (all handful > > of them), sure. But that doesn’t really help at this point, alas. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
