Again, there is nothing wrong with us trying to organize, but I do like the idea of a third party QP system that focuses on us, would people use it? Not without some incentive perhaps, but it's an idea worth considering all the same. Who all in here do we have from CS:GO? I don't personally know any server ops who run anything there and all the ones I did closed down as they couldn't get any traffic.
On that note, what sort of incentives do CS:GO operators use? I know my community offers a lot of unique things but it still cannot compete to free skins on Valve servers. On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Jesse Oak <[email protected]> wrote: > How about instead of writing emails complaining about unfair treatment in > regards to competing with official servers you used that time to come up > with ways to compete with them. > Look at the CSGO server operators, they have it much worse then their tf2 > counter parts but they are not on here spamming a mailing list about it > every week. Instead they are coming up with incentives for players to use > their servers. > You think quick play is the death of community run servers? Why not create > a third party alternative quick play and throw in some incentive for people > who login and use it. Last I checked steams browser protocol is still > working so you can throw someone into a server by opening a link. Why not > work with the very open system valve has provided you to do something to > draw players to your servers? > On top of that do you believe valve employees like Eric who read this > mailing list care what anyone who sends in an email complaining about > "unfair" treatment every week thinks at this point? How long does it take > before you get the hint that things are not changing and what you are > asking for is not open to discussion? The more emails you send in to this > list crying about quick play and motd the less valve cares about anything > you have to say. > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 6:55 PM Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I read "idiocy", I'm smelling the troll again. >> >> There are points regarding adverts and quickplay though. Lack of >> transparency (also due to ads and the pretty hidden advanced option to >> disable motds) forces more people to use QP. Ads are also the main point of >> community servers' bad rep. (Something you've also said) >> >> Just ignoring points and calling everyone opposing your point of view >> idiots isn't a smart play here (and is somewhat ironic), which is why I'm >> going to ignore your walls of texts now. >> Should you ever show indications of intent to properly discuss things, >> and do it in a precisely-phrased manner (also meaning short here, because >> you stretch your troll statements on purpose), I would love to hear your >> opinion again and take you seriously. >> bb >> >> >> On 20.12.2015 00:27, Cats From Above wrote: >> >> E. Olsen’s argument and implicit statement that adverts are the problem >> is a complete non sequitur when it comes to the topic of Quickplay, the >> likes of which far and exceed the idiocy of Matthias and co. from earlier >> posts. >> >> Firstly, I’d like a written admission from E. Olsen that if, >> hypothetically, adverts were to disappear on the present date, we would not >> be one step closer to getting communities back into the default Quickplay >> pool – as for “community” servers were not removed from the default pool >> due to adverts; He seems to forget that Valve’s response to the limited >> misuse of the HTML MOTD feature and the objection of a vocal minority was >> to put in limitations on that functionality for Quickplay joins – The >> removal of servers from the default Quickplay pool had naught to do with >> it. Further, he also seems to forget that Valve themselves used Pinion to >> host official servers when it was convenient for them to do so and yet >> people weren’t jumping up and down about that, rather, it was the >> communities that had an obnoxious advert configuration (Ergo: Long wait >> timers, forced HTML MOTDs enabled, replays on death or new rounds) that >> caused segments of the player community to take a polarised stance against >> advertising – Though again, this a problem that is completely separate from >> the current discussion of getting servers back into Quickplay. >> >> Now, E. Olsen seems to imply that all players hate the adverts so much >> that they can’t stand community servers. If that is true, Mr Olsen, then >> why after so long since Valve implemented the nuclear solution, are there >> still advert-funded servers around? It can’t be Quickplay joins funding >> them, obviously, but instead it has to be players using the server browser >> to explicitly join those servers, in many cases from the favourites tab in >> the full knowledge that the community is advert funded – How else would >> they get seeded each day? >> >> E. Olsen also thinks we should ask players a loaded question. A question >> which not only implies that community servers have lost the support of the >> player base “as a whole” (when they have not) but one that ignores the >> stark reality of MOTD advertising – There are communities out there that >> have been born out of advertising or who are otherwise supported by it. A >> removal of MOTD advertising in those instances is tantamount to killing off >> those communities and let’s put it this way, whether you join from >> Quickplay or the server browser, you’d be losing a lot of variety and a lot >> talent from the Team Fortress 2 community as a whole. It may not have >> crossed E. Olsen’s mind that there are players out there whose favourite >> server is advert funded. How does he plan to reconcile attempting to kill >> off that person’s fun all in the name of ideological egotism? Of course, E. >> Olsen would say, “Just need to find another favourite server!” to which I >> call bullsh*t. >> >> Don’t get me wrong, no one gets excited over advertising. I don’t know of >> a single person who gets their rocks off to the night’s serving of adverts >> on the internet and television. However, that does not go to say that no >> one understands why advertising is used or that everyone would be willing >> to lose access to advert funded services on the Internet or within the Team >> Fortress 2 community more generally speaking just to get rid of it. Any >> attempt to suggest otherwise is the height of intellectual dishonesty, to >> which I’m surprised that E. Olsen would have the effrontery to put such an >> ill-founded and misleading statement forward, though then again, on this >> mailing list? I should hardly be surprised. >> >> And finally, should I remind E. Olsen that abusive advert configurations >> were not the only ill and certainly not the biggest ill, that alienated >> players from community servers? Abusive administrators, fake players, >> game-breaking benefits and other pay to win / pay to be admin nonsense, >> inconsistent server performance and uptime, arbitrary rules, hidden >> configuration changes and misleading or absent tags (Respawn times >> anyone?). And let’s not forget that community servers boast having >> Moderators but how many times do you hear of a player bitching about an >> admin not being around and voting being disabled, thus rendering a server >> full of player’s subject to the havoc of one hacker? He seems to be rather >> short sighted in asserting that removing adverts would fix everything, let >> alone anything at all or that it would otherwise be required to get servers >> back into the default Quickplay pool which is where this flurry of posts to >> the mailing list all started so let us return. >> >> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 12:11 AM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Of course - the fact that the long-standing functionality of the MOTD >>> window had to be disabled in the first place meant that those of us who >>> never used those ads lost the ability to display important info in-game to >>> the majority of new players....so yeah, thanks for that. >>> >>> I find it incredibly puzzling that people willfully fail to recognize >>> the fact that MOTD ads did so much more harm to community server hosting >>> than any "good" that might have come from them. We lost MOTD functionality >>> for the largest source of new players, the rampant use and abuse of them >>> painted all community servers in a negative light (and still does), and the >>> folks that are using them the most (or running the companies supplying >>> them) always want to let us all know how they're "not the problem" anymore, >>> despite the fact that if you ask the question in any open forum what TF2 >>> players hate the most about community servers, the #1 thing that will >>> always come up is MOTD ads. >>> >>> Sure, I get that they let some server operators pay their bills, but at >>> what long-term cost? What does it matter if a few hundred more servers can >>> exist if it gives the perception to players that community server operators >>> are just trying to make a buck? >>> >>> Frankly, anyone who claims that those ads "aren't a problem" isn't >>> paying attention to what the players are saying. Sure. there may be a small >>> subset of players that "don't care" or who are smart enough to block the >>> ads from running on the servers that use them, but I think any conversation >>> with Valve that includes "let us keep plastering ads on our servers" while >>> asking for equitable treatment is going to fall on deaf ears. >>> >>> I've heard all the arguments in favor of them, but in the end it will >>> all come down to perception. MOTD ads have painted all community servers >>> with the same brush in the eyes of the players, to include those >>> communities that have never used them. Until and unless we're willing to >>> come to a consensus that they've done more harm than good, and continue to >>> cause a negative perception of community servers as a whole, I'm not sure >>> how we can ever get players to support better treatment for community >>> servers, much less Valve (and in case you missed it, even doing something >>> as small for community servers as removing Valve servers from the server >>> browser caused such an uproar from the players, Valve reversed it less than >>> 24 hours later). >>> >>> In fact, honestly, I think that's a question worth asking the player >>> base as a whole. What if we were to ask the players the question "Would you >>> support community servers again if Valve removed the ability for MOTD ads >>> to function?" If the overwhelming answer was "yes" than we would definitely >>> know what we needed to ask Valve to do to bring some equitable treatment >>> back. >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* Web Designer / Artist / Writer Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/
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