Everyone just stop it! You're tearing this family apart! Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 5, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> wrote: > > There is no other reasonable explanation for the TF2 players counts dropping > so much now especially at the start of summer vacation. There is no new Call > of Duty or Battlefield game. > > Let's see what last year looked like. > > http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1357027200000&to=1370415600000 > > Compared to this year. > > http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time > > The number of excuses you all have left is shrinking. > > >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Correlation does not imply causation. >> >> Player counts being lower does not mean that it's because of the quickplay >> decision. >> >> >I don't know how many times I need to keep citing this. >> >> Neither do I. Can you please stop because it's not necessarily a relevant >> fact. >> >> >>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> Regardless of the reason Valve has for essentially removing community >>> servers from quickplay, this change has done more harm than good. >>> >>> I don't know how many times I need to keep citing this. How many more >>> players does TF2 need to lose before someone at Valve wakes up? It is >>> already summer time and player counts are lower than ever. >>> >>> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >>> >>> The longer this policy remains the more permanent damage you are doing to >>> communities people have spent years building up. >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Alexander Corn <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Source radio is obviously not the only thing that it would break. What's >>>> minor to you may not be minor to others. >>>> >>>> Plenty of TF2 trade servers have a !bp command which opens a player's >>>> backpack (in an online backpack viewer) in the MOTD panel. Without >>>> JavaScript, hovering over an item won't show a tooltip with its details. >>>> Sure, this could be done in CSS exclusively, but nobody does that because >>>> having JavaScript enabled is basically a given in modern web development. >>>> >>>> I'd rather have to work harder to populate my Quickplay servers than have >>>> to deal with a completely useless MOTD browser. As others have said, the >>>> HTML MOTD disable option is there for a reason. >>>> >>>> Additionally, HTML MOTDs aren't even displayed for Quickplay connections. >>>> I really don't understand why it's even an issue anymore. It's already >>>> been crippled considerably. >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. McKay >>>> www.doctormckay.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:50 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> I agree that disabling javascript/flash/html5 is less than an ideal >>>>> solution, but for the very minor things it would disable (source radio, >>>>> etc.), if it would allow Valve to return to a level playing field it >>>>> would be a very small sacrifice. I'm sure if Valve came to all of us and >>>>> said "we'll enable all servers by default, but we need to remove those >>>>> elements from the web browser to do so" we would all jump at that chance. >>>>> I honestly believe as long as operators have the ability to run those >>>>> kinds of ads it will be abused by the blackhat folks to the point that >>>>> they ruin it for the rest of us. >>>>> >>>>> I fully agree that mass punishment is/was a seriously ham-fisted approach >>>>> to dealing with the issues, and was the wrong (and frankly, unethical) >>>>> way to treat all server operators. >>>>> >>>>> I like your ideas for better informing the players regarding quickplay >>>>> options, but as with any system of this kind, I think it should start >>>>> with "maximum diversity" fully enabled by default, and allow the players >>>>> to opt out, instead of opting in. Only then will it be a truly level >>>>> playing field for all servers. >>>>> >>>>> On a side note, I would also like to know why the "server scoring" system >>>>> (apparently) didn't work, and why it wasn't more effectively used to weed >>>>> out all the bad apples in the first place. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Alexander Corn <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads >>>>>> > (and I wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling >>>>>> > flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser >>>>>> > (which would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). >>>>>> >>>>>> This is still not an ideal solution. Plenty of community servers rely on >>>>>> the MOTD and features such as JavaScript and Flash (mostly for audio >>>>>> streams, but many are switching to HTML5 audio elements) for their >>>>>> custom features. Removing those features is still removing features that >>>>>> have existed for a very long time due to the abusive tendencies of a few. >>>>>> >>>>>> Those that are abusive should be dealt with. There is no reason why >>>>>> everyone should suffer in order to punish a few. It goes back to grade >>>>>> school gym class. Weren't you pissed when the teacher/coach made >>>>>> everyone run laps or whatever because 3-4 kids wouldn't stop talking? >>>>>> That's how we're being treated now. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could live with the default Valve-only option if it were more obvious >>>>>> how to switch it. When the player first starts up TF2, they're shown >>>>>> popups directing them to the store, showing them how the backpack works, >>>>>> etc. Ironically, these popups really only cover the item system, which >>>>>> most can agree comes second to actual gameplay. There's no coaching >>>>>> regarding how to actually join a game. >>>>>> >>>>>> Display a balloon that points to the Quickplay button and says something >>>>>> like, "Click here to be quickly matched into a game based on gamemode" >>>>>> and one that points to the servers button and says something like, >>>>>> "Click here to fine-tune your desired game settings". >>>>>> >>>>>> Also show a balloon in the Quickplay dialog that points to the settings >>>>>> button (which isn't exactly immediately apparent as being clickable) and >>>>>> also a dialog that explains the difference between official and >>>>>> community servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Official servers offer an unmodified and uncustomized experience." >>>>>> >>>>>> "Community servers typically offer better moderation, some minor >>>>>> gameplay modifications, and a greater sense of community." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. McKay >>>>>> www.doctormckay.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very >>>>>>>> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because >>>>>>>> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe >>>>>>>> people like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down >>>>>>>> players throats and other like-minded stains. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess I would consider that a valid argument if it wasn't Valve who >>>>>>> had enabled the "ad farms" in the first place. Those things were never >>>>>>> a problem before quickplay came along, because those kinds of servers >>>>>>> would never get favorited to see a return visitor. The Pinion-supported >>>>>>> folks were only enabled by quickplay, plain and simple - which is why >>>>>>> when Pinion came on the scene shortly after quickplay came along, you >>>>>>> had these guys go from a dozen or so servers to 100+ just to farm ad >>>>>>> impressions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads >>>>>>> (and I wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling >>>>>>> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser >>>>>>> (which would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). If they >>>>>>> did that, and just quietly dropped any of the "premium" servers from >>>>>>> quickplay, they would have knocked out all but the most determined >>>>>>> black-hat folks, and those can always be dealt with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Eli Witt <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Replied to the last message, I'll post this here too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, we know from experience just how good Valve is at keeping a lid >>>>>>>> on things (case in point HL3) so I doubt they're going to acknowledge >>>>>>>> this in any way unless they see fit to, not because we're disgruntled >>>>>>>> and asking for information. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And for what it's worth, everyone (who's opinion on this list is worth >>>>>>>> a damn) has thrown out the point that "we're the ones providing the >>>>>>>> servers for Valve, we're the ones who give their players a place to >>>>>>>> play etc etc" - but what I think is going unnoticed here is the fact >>>>>>>> that Valve is obviously taking steps (and increasingly larger ones) to >>>>>>>> nullify that argument in it's entirety. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very >>>>>>>> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because >>>>>>>> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe >>>>>>>> people like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down >>>>>>>> players throats and other like-minded stains. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We've got the binaries on both ends, and Valve knows this. It's >>>>>>>> virtually impossible to stop people from being fuckjobs with access to >>>>>>>> both binaries, so let [Valve] just diminish the footprint the fuckjobs >>>>>>>> get access by about 90% by forcing people into the servers we can >>>>>>>> afford to run now that we've monetized TF2. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If I was Valve and I made this decision, I wouldn't give a piss >>>>>>>> whether people who run servers are upset by this or threaten to pull >>>>>>>> their servers offline because of this decision, because that's the >>>>>>>> direction I wanted to force you in anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Robert Paulson >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Making a new thread because replies are being blocked with "Message >>>>>>>>> body is too big: 41090 bytes with a limit of 40 KB". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Complaints here have historically gone ignored but it doesn't mean it >>>>>>>>> is a bad idea to keep the issue in the spotlight here as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just make sure you also contact Valve directly. >>>>>>>>> http://valvesoftware.com/email.php >>>>>>>>> Some people say Fletcher is in charge of TF2 now so email him too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We're really past the point in asking Valve for an "answer". The >>>>>>>>> answer is probably the same as before: a handful of servers ruined >>>>>>>>> the experience for a few new players and some lazy players who >>>>>>>>> couldn't be bothered to type valve in the tags. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So they threw in some useless features like quickpick and released >>>>>>>>> server migrations at the same time to shut you up before you realize >>>>>>>>> your community was also going to get screwed so there would be no >>>>>>>>> huge public outrage. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What needs to be done now is to get someone at Valve to realize that >>>>>>>>> this change did more harm than good and there is evidence to prove it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any other argument we bring up they will consider it biased because >>>>>>>>> we host servers and somehow that means we don't care about players. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ever since the change, global TF2 player counts have steadily been >>>>>>>>> dropping. Peaks have dipped from 82k to 71k, a 15% loss. And summer >>>>>>>>> vacation has already started as you can see from the weekday player >>>>>>>>> counts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
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