Hi, On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 2:10 PM Ian Luo <ian....@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dave & Others, > > This "3rd party" site (https://github.com/dubbo) is used for building > Dubbo's eco-system. Just as you said, It contains both the projects which > will be donated and which may not, so the final goal for this "3rd party" > site is pretty clear: it will contain and only contain projects won't > donate, and if there's no project left eventually, this site does not > necessarily exist. > > What we're doing now is to solve the potential branding issues, in order to > answer the challenges from whom wearing the trademark committee hat. It is > an ad-hoc actions since we need to solve this particular issue as quickly > as possible. Here're what we are doing as short-term actions: > > 1. Rename dubbo group to other name. - not yet
Or create a new group and move all the projects to it, left dubbo as an empty group. (The purpose is just to ensure nobody is trying to abuse it) > 2. Stop using Dubbo logo as group's avatar - done > 3. Rename all project names in compliance with the policies - ongoing +1 > > > At the same time, I strongly agree with what Dave suggested for the long > run plan. Here's what I propose (certainly this plan needs to be vote in > dubbo's mailing list): > > 1. All projects will be transferred to Apache group with ETA I will try to discuss this with the project owners and Dubbo community to work out a ETA. > 2. After that, all members in this group will be join Apache if they are > willing to (after they go through the vote certainly) As long as the project is under ASF, anyone can become committer by earning enough merit. > 3. After the transition is done, this particular group will be deleted +1. > > I will init the vote for the long term plan in dubbo's community today, and > we will get back with the concrete transition plan with ETA to the board > meeting as soon as possible. I hope we can satisfy the IPMC by doing this. > Pls. let me know if this is sufficient. We can adjust the plan if any > further suggestion comes up. I think the Dubbo community can deliver an improved version of [1] to IPMC, by filling all the blanks and with a new column ETA. [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-dubbo/wiki/Apache-Dubbo-external-ecosystem-status > > Regards, > -Ian. > > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 12:29 AM Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Hi - > > > > (With trademark committee hat) > > > > Trademark resources can all be found from here: > > Trademark resources sitemap: > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources > > PMC responsibility: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility > > Improper third party uses: > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility#police > > Formal policy: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ > > > > I don’t think that there is a formal policy to handle the situation where > > a transitional, "3rd party” site controlled by the PMC exists that will be > > phased out. Generally trademarks is looking for that PMC to be working with > > and engaging 3rd parties to fix any branding issues. > > > > I think it is important to know what the goal is for the "3rd party" site > > is and when that will be achieved. > > > > (Dubbo mentor hat) > > > > I think that rather than quickly responding by fixing various issues in an > > ad hoc manner it would be good to present the long term plan and then agree > > on the needed language on the “3rd party site” > > > > For example, the treatment of “product” that will be donated into the > > project codebase differs from “product” that won’t be. The “for Apache > > Dubbo” makes no sense for product that will be moved into Dubbo. > > > > The next board meeting is May 15th and there is time to carefully address > > the plan to the satisfaction of the IPMC. > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > > On Apr 24, 2019, at 8:51 AM, Sheng Wu <wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi > > > > > >> Could somebody point me to Apache documentation that indicates that > > > such use of names of Apache projects is not ok? I might need that > > > information soon-ish myself, thanks. > > > > > > I used to read this from incubator discussions. Zipkin and SkyWalking > > were > > > facing that question. Could someone help about this? > > > > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟 > > > > > > Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin > > > Twitter, wusheng1108 > > > > > > > > > Jan Piotrowski <piotrow...@gmail.com> 于2019年4月24日周三 下午11:29写道： > > > > > >> Semi OT: > > >> Could somebody point me to Apache documentation that indicates that > > >> such use of names of Apache projects is not ok? I might need that > > >> information soon-ish myself, thanks. > > >> > > >> -J > > >> > > >> Am Mi., 24. Apr. 2019 um 17:07 Uhr schrieb Sheng Wu < > > >> wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com>: > > >>> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> 4. We plan to rename all projects in this organization to > > >>>> xxx-for-apache-dubbo > > >>> > > >>> The rename makes sense for ecosystem projects, especially for these > > >> three. > > >>> I also used to see the traditional rename to xxx-for-apache-project > > >>> 1. js, https://github.com/dubbo/dubbo2.js > > >>> 2. python, https://github.com/dubbo/dubbo-client-py > > >>> 3. php, https://github.com/dubbo/dubbo-php-framework > > >>> > > >>> Also, please pay attention to this[1]. This is a release repo(npm), the > > >>> description in Chinese, I assume it related to [2]. Right? > > >>> If yes, this release dist should be renamed. SkyWalking used to be > > asked > > >>> stop in the same case. > > >>> Because it misguides user this is Apache release, which isn't. > > >>> > > >>> [1] https://www.npmjs.com/package/dubbo2.js > > >>> [2] https://github.com/dubbo/dubbo2.js > > >>> > > >>> Sheng Wu 吴晟 > > >>> > > >>> Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin > > >>> Twitter, wusheng1108 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sheng Wu <wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com> 于2019年4月24日周三 下午10:46写道： > > >>> > > >>>> Hi > > >>>> > > >>>>> 1. We will remove the organization avatar > > >>>>> 2. We are ready to rename organization name from 'dubbo' to other > > >> name > > >>>>> 3. Because of action 2, we will also lose the domain name > > >>>> dubbo.github.io, > > >>>>> but it also makes things easier, since we don't need to keep website > > >> in > > >>>>> this group > > >>>>> 4. We plan to rename all projects in this organization to > > >>>>> xxx-for-apache-dubbo > > >>>> > > >>>> Please discuss with your community, then make the decision. I just > > >> reply > > >>>> the Huxing's. Transfer the repos in the org(except the > > dubbo.github.io > > >> , > > >>>> if the community wants), is also a good idea. > > >>>> > > >>>> I think both you and Huxing have been clear about my concern. I trust > > >> the > > >>>> Dubbo community could make it right. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks. > > >>>> > > >>>> Sheng Wu 吴晟 > > >>>> > > >>>> Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin > > >>>> Twitter, wusheng1108 > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Ian Luo <ian....@gmail.com> 于2019年4月24日周三 下午10:16写道： > > >>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Those two are good options. Please read my prev reply[1], which > > >>>>> concerns me > > >>>>>> more are > > >>>>>> 1. Website codebase. > > >>>>>> 2. GitHub org name and logo. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Sheng, If your concerns here are confirmed to be disallowed, we will > > >> do > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> following things against dubbo group: > > >>>>> 1. We will remove the organization avatar > > >>>>> 2. We are ready to rename organization name from 'dubbo' to other > > name > > >>>>> 3. Because of action 2, we will also lose the domain name > > >> dubbo.github.io > > >>>>> , > > >>>>> but it also makes things easier, since we don't need to keep website > > >> in > > >>>>> this group > > >>>>> 4. We plan to rename all projects in this organization to > > >>>>> xxx-for-apache-dubbo > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Let me know if your concerns will be completely addressed once the > > >> actions > > >>>>> above are made. Before it, I'd like to confirm with our mentors and > > >>>>> hopefully get back to you soon. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Regards, > > >>>>> -Ian. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 7:56 PM Huxing Zhang <hux...@apache.org> > > >> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:01 AM Sheng Wu < > > >> wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> As Justin mentioned above, the translation is under going. We > > >> cannot > > >>>>>> do it > > >>>>>>> for all because we need to examine the license and make sure ICLA > > >> for > > >>>>>> each > > >>>>>>> projects are signed, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I am not asking to move all repo related to Dubbo, which is > > >> decided by > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>>> project owner or Dubbo community. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> eventually we hope to move everything into Apache group except > > >> for > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>> repo [1] which serves redirection dubbo.io to dubbo.apache.org. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> As you mentioned, which make me concern more. Especially you say > > >>>>>>> `eventually` and `hope`. Are these optional? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> No. The redirection has been completed. > > >>>>>> You can test with: curl -i http://dubbo.io > > >>>>>> The only effective file is index.html, possibly CNAME. > > >>>>>> Other files are archive for the old website before joining ASF. > > >>>>>> To make it better understandable, I think it is better to move them > > >> to > > >>>>>> other place (e.g. a new branch) for archive purpose. > > >>>>>> I update the description and readme, removing the word "eventually". > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Please read your own Incubator Proposal[1], section Initial > > >> Source, > > >>>>> "Home > > >>>>>>> Page: https://github.com/dubbo/dubbo.github.io"; > > >>>>>>> If the transfer has not been finished, you should wait for that > > >> before > > >>>>>>> graduation. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> IMO, the transfer has been finished. Requests to dubbo.io has been > > >>>>>> redirected to dubbo.apache.org. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Why not just set the `redirect` on the DNS level, and host all in > > >>>>>>> http://dubbo.apache.org. If the two are the same. If not, which > > >> is > > >>>>>> harder > > >>>>>>> to understand for me. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Because the ownership of dubbo.io did not belong to either Apache > > >> or > > >>>>>> Alibaba when Dubbo joined ASF. > > >>>>>> The Dubbo community do not have access to change the DNS record. > > >>>>>> The easiest way is to redirect dubbo.io to dubbo.apache.org. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> This is a block for me. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Now I have changed the title and the profile for dubbo group > > >> like > > >>>>> this: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> You changed some. But if you look clearly about the logo(GitHub > > >> org > > >>>>>>> avatar), also the name, you will see they[2][3] are the same, > > >> which > > >>>>> both > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>>>> them belong to ASF. > > >>>>>>> Which makes me think the branding has not been cleared. > > >> Especially, I > > >>>>>> think > > >>>>>>> Dubbo team has the full access to that GitHub org, so this should > > >> be > > >>>>> able > > >>>>>>> to be fixed. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I have no objection to rename the organization if this is an issue. > > >>>>>> I see some TLP keep an empty group. I think it is useful just for > > >>>>>> defensive purpose, in case someone abuse it. > > >>>>>> Another way is to create another group with something other than > > >>>>>> dubbo, can transfer all the projects under it. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dubbo is now incubated in ASF: > > >>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-dubbo, > > >>>>>>> this group is for hosting dubbo eco-system temporarily before the > > >>>>>>> transition finishes. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> The temporarily needs to be defined, as you are going to be a > > >> TLP, the > > >>>>>>> PPMC(potentail PMC) have to make the decision, what do you want > > >> about > > >>>>>> your > > >>>>>>> own repo. > > >>>>>>> Notice, I am not saying all repo in GitHub, but the specific ones > > >> in > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>> initial org, https://github.com/dubbo > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> [1] https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DubboProposal > > >>>>>>> [2] http://dubbo.apache.org/en-us/ > > >>>>>>> [3] https://github.com/dubbo > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Sheng Wu 吴晟 > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin > > >>>>>>> Twitter, wusheng1108 > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Ian Luo <ian....@gmail.com> 于2019年4月24日周三 上午10:29写道： > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Glad to see the actions are ongoing, and many projects are > > >> done. > > >>>>>> Could > > >>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> Dubbo community consider to make sure the Dubbo GitHub[1] org > > >> to > > >>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>> processed well? Such as, > > >>>>>>>>> 1. Stop using the Dubbo logo. > > >>>>>>>>> 2. Statement clear, this org will be renamed or some other > > >>>>>> way(community > > >>>>>>>>> prefers) to avoid the branding concern. > > >>>>>>>>> I think the clear status of Dubbo ecosystem is very important. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> As Justin mentioned above, the translation is under going. We > > >> cannot > > >>>>>> do it > > >>>>>>>> for all because we need to examine the license and make sure > > >> ICLA > > >>>>> for > > >>>>>> each > > >>>>>>>> projects are signed, but, eventually we hope to move everything > > >> into > > >>>>>> Apache > > >>>>>>>> group except for the repo [1] which serves redirection dubbo.io > > >> to > > >>>>>>>> dubbo.apache.org. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Now I have changed the title and the profile for dubbo group > > >> like > > >>>>> this: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Title: Apache Dubbo Ecosystem > > >>>>>>>> Profile: Dubbo is now incubated in ASF: > > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-dubbo, this group is for > > >>>>> hosting > > >>>>>> dubbo > > >>>>>>>> eco-system temporaryly before the transition finishes. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I hope this can answer your concerns. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Regards, > > >>>>>>>> -Ian. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> 1. https://github.com/dubbo/dubbo.github.io > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 8:13 AM Sheng Wu < > > >> wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Part of the repo was used to host dubbo.io which now > > >> redirects > > >>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>> http://dubbo.apache.org/en-us/. Re the other projects it may > > >> be > > >>>>>> that a > > >>>>>>>>> little clean up still needs to be done but action is being > > >> taken. > > >>>>> The > > >>>>>>>>> existence of this extra repo has been discussed a number of > > >> times > > >>>>> in > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> project and projects are being moved off it. e.g. [1][2] and > > >> more > > >>>>>>>> recently > > >>>>>>>>> [3][4]. > > >>>>>>>>>> This document probably best describes what is happening [5]. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Glad to see the actions are ongoing, and many projects are > > >> done. > > >>>>>> Could > > >>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> Dubbo community consider to make sure the Dubbo GitHub[1] org > > >> to > > >>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>> processed well? Such as, > > >>>>>>>>> 1. Stop using the Dubbo logo. > > >>>>>>>>> 2. Statement clear, this org will be renamed or some other > > >>>>>> way(community > > >>>>>>>>> prefers) to avoid the branding concern. > > >>>>>>>>> I think the clear status of Dubbo ecosystem is very important. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Dubbo has a very wide community and connected many > > >>>>>> projects/developers, > > >>>>>>>> so > > >>>>>>>>> please consider to make sure the branding is clear before > > >>>>> graduation. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> This issue is is being addressed (vote has been canceled, > > >> the > > >>>>>>>> dependancy > > >>>>>>>>> removed, documentation updated and there’s a discussion > > >> started on > > >>>>>> legal > > >>>>>>>>> discuss on if it might in future be allowed). I also note it > > >> was > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>> PPMC > > >>>>>>>>> who first noticed this issue not the IPMC. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This is not a blocker, this comes from the same reason I asked > > >>>>> about > > >>>>>>>>> branding. > > >>>>>>>>> Dubbo is too widely used as they said in many media(s), many > > >>>>>>>>> watcher(s)/star(s) in GitHub. > > >>>>>>>>> I am hoping it will be a good example of ASF project, and the > > >> PMC > > >>>>> is > > >>>>>>>> ready > > >>>>>>>>> to find the license issue in first place. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/dubbo > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Sheng Wu 吴晟 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin > > >>>>>>>>> Twitter, wusheng1108 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Justin Mclean <jus...@classsoftware.com> 于2019年4月24日周三 > > >> 上午7:19写道： > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. If graduation happens, Dubbo should be Apache branding, > > >>>>> then > > >>>>>> why > > >>>>>>>>>>> dubbo GitHub org[1] is still used. Especially the exact > > >> name > > >>>>> and > > >>>>>>>> logo. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Part of the repo was used to host dubbo.io which now > > >> redirects > > >>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>>> http://dubbo.apache.org/en-us/. Re the other projects it > > >> may be > > >>>>>> that a > > >>>>>>>>>> little clean up still needs to be done but action is being > > >>>>> taken. > > >>>>>> The > > >>>>>>>>>> existence of this extra repo has been discussed a number of > > >>>>> times > > >>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>> project and projects are being moved off it. e.g. [1][2] > > >> and > > >>>>> more > > >>>>>>>>> recently > > >>>>>>>>>> [3][4]. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> This document probably best describes what is happening [5]. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Most star project[2] in dubbo org is using Apache mail > > >>>>>> list[3]. > > >>>>>>>> But > > >>>>>>>>>>> groupId[4] says it belongs Alibaba > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I would guess this is just an oversight, but if someone > > >> from the > > >>>>>> PPMC > > >>>>>>>> can > > >>>>>>>>>> comment on this that would be good. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. Dubbo-go[5] project exists, and also use the Dubbo > > >> name. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> See [5]. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Also, in the last Dubbo vote `[VOTE]: Release Apache Dubbo > > >>>>>>>>>>> Admin(Incubating) 0.2.0 [RC3]`. License issue hasn't been > > >>>>>> addressed > > >>>>>>>>>> inside > > >>>>>>>>>>> the PPMC(dev vote), I know LGPL is uncertain thing(maybe), > > >>>>> but at > > >>>>>>>> this > > >>>>>>>>>>> moment, it should not be included. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> This issue is is being addressed (vote has been canceled, > > >> the > > >>>>>>>> dependancy > > >>>>>>>>>> removed, documentation updated and there’s a discussion > > >> started > > >>>>> on > > >>>>>>>> legal > > >>>>>>>>>> discuss on if it might in future be allowed). I also note > > >> it was > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> PPMC > > >>>>>>>>>> who first noticed this issue not the IPMC. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>>>> Justin > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 1. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/aae8787244959aeaab0e3e83dd79036482df9e8006f0fb83e5173d87@%3Cdev.dubbo.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>>>>>> 2. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/f272b30bd9bb09dc605088504f8ed643bd9a3b2434c9e7ef59b6b7fe@%3Cdev.dubbo.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>>>>>> 3. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1987617abc1d4989476beda9dfc9a79eb0e4750050317803b113288c@%3Cdev.dubbo.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>>>>>> 4. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ec7995d2c42bafcb8f2778b1d0c6ee94bcbbc2dae11d23c41cad82d6@%3Cdev.dubbo.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>>>>>> 5. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-dubbo/wiki/Apache-Dubbo-external-ecosystem-status > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > >>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > >>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Best Regards！ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Huxing > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > -- Best Regards！ Huxing --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
