Woonsan, I apologize for misreading your intent, but am glad my comment stimulated you to express your opinions so well.
On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 2:48 PM Woonsan Ko <woon...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Ted, > > Maybe I missed somethings totally, but I intended to express my > preference about restructuring of IPMC, not PPMCs: > - Keep only people as IPMC members who can really guide, recruit and > review graduations based on their merits shown in the past in this > specific community; > - Keep active mentors as "mentors", like "committers" in other > projects with no binding votes, but more focused on helping podlings > with details and providing enough info and overview to IPMC. > - No automatic IPMC membership for ASF members without voting based on > their merit in this "incubation" community. > > There are concerns in detail, such as how to get 3+ votes in the > releases of podlings that are not close to graduation if mentors don't > have binding votes, how to recognize mentoring contributions from new > faces, etc. Ideas in other threads flow here and there. If IPMC > members are more focused on high-level guidances and reviews, it > should work based on active mentors' helps. Anyway, the above is my > personal preference. It seems fairer to me than today: when podlings > get reviews, voting, and guidances from IPMC; when mentors work hard > to get a podling graduated standing between a podling and IPMC; when a > mentor is recognized and invited to IPMC by the incubation community > for their mentoring contributions; when more dedicated IPMC members > review and cast binding vote with more responsible feedbacks; when > people watch, participate in the lists considering to help podlings in > various ways possibly hoping to be a mentor (committer) someday. > > Regards, > > Woonsan > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:49 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Woonsan > > > > I think that there may be some cross-talk between discussions. This > latest > > discussion was about the Ipmc ,not about the podling PMCs. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:27 PM Woonsan Ko <woon...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:33 PM Justin Mclean <jus...@classsoftware.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > It’s been suggested that the IPMC is too large, what do other IPMC > > > members think might be a way to address this? > > > > > > > > Please discuss and indicate +1 what you would think would help, you > can > > > vote for more than one. > > > > > > > > Some suggestions: > > > > 1. Ask all inactive IPMC if they want to continue being on the IPMC > and > > > see who steps down. Being inactive they are probably not following this > > > list so we need to identify and send each one email them personally. > > > > 2. There were some questions around merit raised, remove all IPMC > > > members who were not on the initial proposal and who were voted in. > Those > > > left on the IPMC vote back in those who are currently active. > > > > 3. Get rid of all IPMC members, and vote (with ASF members vote being > > > binding - not sure how else it could be done?) currently active ones > back > > > in. > > > > 4. Do nothing as this is not actually a problem but instead address > > > other underlying issues. e.g. lack of mentor engagement. > > > > > > +1 to my modified version from #2 (and 0 to the others as I don't > > > think they will help a lot): > > > "Remove all IPMC members who were not on the initial proposal and who > > > were voted in. Those left on the IPMC vote for those, as members, who > > > can recruit, guide mentors, and review podling graduations, and they > > > also vote for those, as mentors (committers), who have ever been > > > active mentors for podlings." > > > > > > Mentors are committers: if someone starts contributing in this > > > community, they are to be recognized and invited to a mentor > > > (committer) in this project; if they contribute more for the community > > > consistently, they are to be invited to a IPMC member. In smaller > > > IPMC, IPMC members focus more on helping/guiding mentors and reviewing > > > graduations in various aspects, and mentors focus more on detail > > > issues in podlings, providing enough overview and information to IPMC. > > > I think this will make it a fairer merit-earning game, to new comers > > > getting helps from mentors and (graduation and/or high-level) reviews > > > from members, watchers considering to help, mentors eager to help > > > graduations, more focused members, ... > > > > > > > > > > > Also re point 2 do you think we should drop that ASF members can > > > automatically get IPMC membership and change it to requiring a vote by > the > > > IPMC? It’s has always seem odd to me that this is the case. We’ve > recently > > > voted more people in that we’ve had requests from ASF members. > > > > > > +1 to always be voting, whether they are ASF members or not, like other > > > PMCs. > > > > > > > > > > > Any other sugestions? > > > > > > > > Options 2 and 3 may cause some issues around mentors, but if they > were > > > not active then I guess it’s no big loss. > > > > > > My modified version includes all active people as mentors (committers) > > > at least, so there's no loss as well. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Woonsan > > > > > > > > > > > And any suggestions on level of activity? Such as: > > > > - Emailed the list in the last year. > > > > - Reviewed at least one release in that time. > > > > > > > > It’s already been determined that some (about 15%) of the less than > > > active PMC members (out of the 100 odd that are not signed up to the > IPMC > > > private list) do help out infrequently but that help is very useful. > That > > > may also apply to other inactive IPMC members, so I would suggest the > bar > > > for what consider active be kept low. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Justin > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
