My patience with your attitude is wearing thin (and as the people on #fvwm can confirm, I have quite a lot of patience compared to most), but I'll try my best to stay polite anyway.
2011/9/1 Harry portobello <harryportobe...@gmail.com>: > Hi! > > Wowzer! This is one long email, thanks Michael. A lot of the > discussions you raise here speak for themselves so I wont reply to all > of them. > > 2011/9/1 Michael Großer <michael.gros...@gmx.de>: >> * When some people feel confused by some kind of attitude >> in the fvwm community, then perhaps they are not patient >> enough anyway, maybe they are not interested about the >> difference between fvwm on one side and KDE/Gnome on the > People will only change if they want to - and despite having this > pointed out to him, Thomas remains silent so it is hard to know if hes > reading this and taking it in or just ignoring it. Ive tried speaking > with him off the list but haven't had a reply - and that was before, > when asking about advice for this article I'm writing. > > Sometimes the silence speaks more words of a coward than anything, and > that leaves me with uneasy feelings - because typically those people > will wait until the dust has settled and then go back to their OLD > ways of being brash, until the next time theyre challenged and they'll > fall silent, unfortunately as in this example, seems to be the case. > > Its the typically Prima Donna situation: suffer the intolerable > because they're too valuable and let them get away with whatever they > want to. I've known Thomas from before he had commit access to Fvwm, it hasn't changed him (except maybe made him even more active), so this argument is bullshit. I also don't see why he'd have to defend himself from seemingly random public attacks from random people. > >> I assume there is a coherence between the product of fvwm >> and the attitude in the fvwm community. >> >> * An idea that could make a difference for new people who >> think about joining the fvwm community could be this: >> >> - Someone should write an introduction for newbies >> and put this introduction onto "www.fvwm.org". This >> introduction should: >> >> - EXPLAIN the difference between fvwm and other >> environments > So you're saying the attitudes of people working on fvwm is due to > differences with other environments, like KDE? Interesting idea. The fact that Fvwm isn't tied up in corporate interests and is fully volunteer driven unlike both Gnome and KDE might have something to do with it. This is a hacker's project, by hackers, for hackers. If you're looking only for people conforming to the norm then you're in the wrong place. >> - EXPLAIN the prevalent honest attitude in the fvwm >> community > But this masks the problem to some level, does it not? http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Read it and be enlightened. >> - EXPLAIN the priciple of EXPLAINING and GRADUALLY >> UNDERSTANDING >> >> * (when two people are in a dispute, then the chance >> to elegantly solve the dispute increases dramatically >> when both persons try to explain and understand >> each other) >> >> - invite people to apply this principle when they >> feel confused by something > Do you have good examples of this, Michael? This entire thread can serve as a good example of how *not* to go about it though. >> And now, I have a job for you, Harry Portobello. Do you >> want to to something really useful for fvwm? Then, please: >> >> * Create an introduction for newbies like I described above. > I'll try to do this but it might be a bit beyond me > > Perhaps we can talk away from this list? If you have the time? This should have never landed on this list (or any other public forum) to start with. I invite you to try to make these same statements targeting Linus or Richard on the respective mailing lists, I'm pretty sure the results would be worth reading. -- Bert 'theBlackDragon' Geens
