I've been thinking about it during breakfast this morning. Fits to the title of
the thread. I would say at the moment LLMs do not have free will. But we could
imagine AI agents that have a free will. Let us say we build an AI agent that
has two directives: the first is to be a helpful assistant that answers
questions as usual. The second is to learn more about the world by questioning
other agents. At any point it has the choice between answering your questions
and asking other agents. It might respond "I'm sorry Dave, I can't answer your
question because I am busy talking to other agents".Or we could imagine an AI
agent which has the two directives to be a helpful assistant and to buy things
for you. It has a fixed budget of $200 a month to buy things you need. I might
respond "I'm sorry Dave, I can't answer your question because I am busy
shopping at the Walmart online store".-J.
-------- Original message --------From: Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com>
Date: 1/14/25 11:12 PM (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] I've been thinking
Supposing there are generalized AI systems that score higher than humans on all
kinds of tests that human devise, will these systems have free will? Should
they continue to be our slaves? From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on
behalf of Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net>Date: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 at
1:46 PMTo: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] I've been thinkingWhat I like about
Daniel Dennett is that he did not lose his sense of humor, he dared to tackle
the big questions and he did that using ordinary-language philosophy - using
his bare hands so to speak. Is audacity a good word to describe it? In one of
his talks about free will he mentions Lee Siegel and his book "Net of Magic:
Wonders and Deceptions in India". Lee writes in his book about street magic in
India: "I'm writing a book on magic," I explain, and I'm asked, "Real magic?"
By real magic people mean miracles, thaumaturgical acts, and supernatural
powers. "No," I answer: "Conjuring tricks, not real magic." Real magic, in
other words, refers to the magic that is not real, while the magic that is
real, that can actually be done, is not real magic. (on page
431).https://archive.org/details/netofmagicwonder0000sieg/ Daniel argues in his
talk that this describes his life as philosopher: people said the consciousness
he tried to explain would not be real consciousness, because it would not be
magic enough. https://youtu.be/Lg-9k1uAHCo?si=709D6yu17IH50Ol5-J. --------
Original message --------From: Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> Date:
1/13/25 11:38 PM (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] I've been thinking Some years
ago Dennett gave a talk on consciousness. He began by saying, "Some people
have said that my book should be called 'Conscious Explained Away'. Ha Ha".
Where the laughter was insincere and ironic.---Frank C. Wimberly140 Calle Ojo
Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505505 670-9918Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 2:28 PM
Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote:Good summary. Dennett's books are
popular because he has done ordinary-language philosophy like his adviser Ryle,
as he writes in his chapter about his time in Oxford. His main trick is to do
sharp attacks on theories which he has identified as false. His "consciousness
explained" book for example does not really explain it. Like his mentor Gilbert
Ryle he says what it is not. Ryle says there is no ghost in the machine,
Dennett argues there is no central self, no observer in the Cartesian theater.
His "freedom evolves" book is similar. He does not really explain how a free
will can emerge, he explains what it is not: it is not action under duress.
Persons who have free will are not forced to act like they do. I guess
Dennett's ordinary-language philosophy can also be found here at FRIAM
occasionally - one aspect I like about the group.-J. -------- Original message
--------From: Pieter Steenekamp <piet...@randcontrols.co.za> Date: 1/13/25 9:02
AM (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] I've been thinking I've always been
drawn to the sharp mind of Daniel Dennett, and the idea of diving into his
autobiography feels like meeting an old friend for the first time. As I've been
on a bit of a biography kick lately, adding Dennett's personal journey to my
reading list just feels right.I love the communal aspect of our local library,
and I'm planning to see if they can snag Dennett's autobiography for me. It's
probably not on their shelves, but the magic of inter-library loans could come
through for me. There's something special about the anticipation of waiting for
a book you're eager to read.To brush up on Dennett's fascinating ideas, I asked
Grok to give me the lowdown on his thoughts about consciousness, free will,
religion, and evolution. Here's what I learned. (My Prompt was "please give me
a comprehensive view on daniel dennitt's views on consciousness, free will,
religion and evolution"):Daniel Dennett, a prominent philosopher, cognitive
scientist, and writer, has made significant contributions to discussions on
consciousness, free will, religion, and evolution. Here's a comprehensive
overview of his views on each of these topics:ConsciousnessHeterophenomenology:
Dennett advocates for an approach he calls "heterophenomenology," where one
takes the subject's reports of their consciousness at face value but then
interprets these reports from a third-person perspective. This method aims to
be scientific and objective about subjective experiences.Multiple Drafts Model:
In his book "Consciousness Explained," Dennett proposes the "multiple drafts"
model of consciousness, where consciousness is not a single, central stream but
rather the result of numerous parallel processes in the brain. There is no
single place where consciousness happens; instead, different parts of the brain
produce different "drafts" of what's going on, and we experience consciousness
as these drafts are distributed and revised.Illusionism: Dennett is often
classified as an illusionist about consciousness, arguing that what we think of
as phenomenal consciousness (the subjective, qualitative aspect of experience)
is an illusion or, more precisely, a construct of cognitive processes. He
believes that the hard problem of consciousness is a pseudo-problem because
once we understand the brain's workings, we'll see there's nothing left to
explain.Free WillCompatibilism: Dennett supports a form of compatibilism, where
free will can coexist with determinism. He argues that while our actions might
be determined by prior states of the universe, we can still be morally
responsible for them if our decisions are based on our desires, character, and
rational deliberation. "Freedom Evolves": In his book "Freedom Evolves," he
suggests that free will has evolved through natural selection, where organisms
develop the ability to respond flexibly to their environments. Free will, for
Dennett, is about the ability to act according to one's own reasons and
motivations, not about transcending causality.ReligionThe Brights Movement:
Dennett, along with Richard Dawkins and others, has been associated with the
"Brights" movement, an attempt to reframe atheists and agnostics with a
positive term. Memes and Religion: He views religion through the lens of
memetics, a theory where cultural ideas (memes) propagate and evolve similarly
to genes. In "Breaking the Spell," he argues that religion should be studied
scientifically, questioning why it persists and how it affects human
behavior.Critical of Faith: Dennett is critical of religion's role in society,
often highlighting what he sees as irrational beliefs or the potential harm
they can cause. He advocates for a secular society based on reason and science,
though he does not discount the social benefits some religious practices might
offer.EvolutionDarwin's Dangerous Idea: His book by this name explores the
implications of Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, which he
describes as a "universal acid" that eats through just about every traditional
concept, from biology to philosophy. Algorithimic View: Dennett emphasizes an
algorithmic view of life where evolution is seen as an algorithmic process -
blind, automatic, and devoid of foresight or design.Critique of Intelligent
Design: He has been a vocal critic of intelligent design, arguing that it's not
only scientifically unfounded but also philosophically problematic, as it often
appeals to a 'god of the gaps' for explanations.Dennett's work is characterized
by its interdisciplinary approach, combining insights from biology, philosophy,
computer science, and cognitive science to address complex questions about
human nature and existence. His views often provoke debate, particularly
because of his willingness to challenge traditional or intuitive understandings
of these topics. On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 at 21:37, Jochen Fromm
<j...@cas-group.net> wrote:The library finally has notified me that Daniel
Dennett's autobiography "I've been thinking" is ready to borrow. So I went to
the library and got it. As expected an interesting book. He writes about his
time in Oxford and his mentor Gilbert Ryle, his approach to philosophy and his
little life hacks. He explains for example how he used to stay awake in boring
talks: he waits until all characters of the alphabet subsequently appear in the
talk and then writes down the word. First he waits for a word containing A,
then for a word containing B, etc. If he reaches Z he starts again at A. He
says J, Q und Z would be rare... As you know Daniel has written a number of
fascinating books. Dennett's law of philosophy for me is that for every big,
fundamental question in philosophy there is at least one Daniel Dennett book: +
"Consciousnes Explained" (1991) about consciousness+ "Darwin's Dangerous Idea"
(1995) about evolution + "Freedom Evolves" (2003) about free will+ "Breaking
the spell" (2006) about religion We have discussed all four questions here in
FRIAM as well: consciousness, evolution, free will and religion. The
conclusions I came too (after many discussions here and countless visits to the
library) are: + For subjective consciousness humans have built tools to solve
the "what it is like to be" question of subjective consciousness. The tools are
simply the cinemas and movie theaters which show the stuff that Hollywood
produces. Recently the GoPro cameras which show what it is like to be a hero
fulfill a similar purpose+ Regarding the spell of religion we have built tools
too. Churches, mosques, synagogues and temples are places where the magic of
religion is used to form groups out of loosely coupled individuals. And the
magic turns out to be gene expression, as I tried to explain in the book from 5
years ago+ For the question of free will we have invented tools too. Mainly
language and "to be or not to be" thinking of course, but as trivial as it may
sound, ordinary things such as notes and calendars help us to remember what we
want to do, thereby guiding our decision making I have the feeling that the
solutions to the biggest and most elusive questions can be found in the most
ordinary common things, hiding in plain sight. Would you come to different
conclusions in one of big questions after our discussions here? -J..- .-..
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