sorry I should have said "events" instead of "things". n
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 7:15 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > A law is not a cause; it is a relation between a class of things caused > and those things' "causer". > > N > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 7:12 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Yes. Because the verb require is intenSional and takes a proposition as >> its object. Thus, if you graph the sentence, it really goes "Physical Law >> requires [that momentum be conserved]" Who is physical law to do that? >> >> I would say that in saying it that way you have introduced a category >> error. Physical laws don't compel obedience. they are themselves the >> overarching sum of such obedience. >> >> Why not simply, "Everywhere momentum is conserved and that fact >> constitutes a law that governs our behavior if we want to successfully >> manipulate the world." If we choose to manipulate the world successfully, >> the facts require us to expect that momentum will in all cases be >> conserved. The compulsion is from facts to us, rather than from the law >> to the facts. >> >> Are there important exceptions to my belief that laws have no causal >> properties? That we are not in need of such an hypothesis? >> >> Nick >> >> Nick >> >> N >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 5:54 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> The puck conserves angular momentum as required by the physical law. Is >>> that telic language? >>> >>> --- >>> Frank C. Wimberly >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>> >>> 505 670-9918 >>> Santa Fe, NM >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 3:10 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Phellow Phriammers, >>>> >>>> Ever since the days of Hywel White (GRHS) I have puzzled over the fact >>>> that telic language so often appears in physics discussions. I used to >>>> tease Hywel that Psychology must be the Mother of Physics, because he had >>>> to use psychological terms to describe the motion of particles. More >>>> recently, I have the same sort of discussions with Stephen Guerin who wants >>>> to use telic language concerning the path of photons and least action. (I >>>> hope I have this right, Stephen). You all have been tempted to think I am >>>> just trolling, but I don't think I am. I think there may be places where >>>> such descriptions are appropriate. I do think, for instance, that the >>>> relation between the first derivative of a function and any point in that >>>> function is analogous to the relation between the motivation of a behavior >>>> and the behavior itself. >>>> >>>> i am back to weather again, after a vacation from it for my obsession >>>> with unsuccessful vegetable gardening. Here is a quote from an >>>> Atmospheric Dynamics text which is laying out the Coriolis Force. >>>> >>>> *What happens if we consider the hockey puck moving equator-ward >>>> relative to the rotation of the Earth. In the absence of applied forces it >>>> must conserve angular momentum. Upon being pulled equator-ward in the >>>> northern hemisphere the radius of rotation of the puck begins to >>>> increase.Consequently, an anti-rotational relative motion develops in order >>>> to conserve angular momentum, [Italics by NST] * >>>> >>>> In the view of folks on this list, is this an appropriate use of telic >>>> language, and why or why not? Stephen has a defensible argument in favor of >>>> it's appropriateness, the only such argument I have ever heard. ( I don[t >>>> buy the premises, but the argument is sound) I am wondering about the rest >>>> of you. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>>> >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology >> Clark University >> > > > -- > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > Clark University > -- Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology Clark University
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