A law is not a cause; it is a relation between a class of things caused and those things' "causer".
N On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 7:12 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes. Because the verb require is intenSional and takes a proposition as > its object. Thus, if you graph the sentence, it really goes "Physical Law > requires [that momentum be conserved]" Who is physical law to do that? > > I would say that in saying it that way you have introduced a category > error. Physical laws don't compel obedience. they are themselves the > overarching sum of such obedience. > > Why not simply, "Everywhere momentum is conserved and that fact > constitutes a law that governs our behavior if we want to successfully > manipulate the world." If we choose to manipulate the world successfully, > the facts require us to expect that momentum will in all cases be > conserved. The compulsion is from facts to us, rather than from the law > to the facts. > > Are there important exceptions to my belief that laws have no causal > properties? That we are not in need of such an hypothesis? > > Nick > > Nick > > N > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 5:54 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The puck conserves angular momentum as required by the physical law. Is >> that telic language? >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 3:10 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Phellow Phriammers, >>> >>> Ever since the days of Hywel White (GRHS) I have puzzled over the fact >>> that telic language so often appears in physics discussions. I used to >>> tease Hywel that Psychology must be the Mother of Physics, because he had >>> to use psychological terms to describe the motion of particles. More >>> recently, I have the same sort of discussions with Stephen Guerin who wants >>> to use telic language concerning the path of photons and least action. (I >>> hope I have this right, Stephen). You all have been tempted to think I am >>> just trolling, but I don't think I am. I think there may be places where >>> such descriptions are appropriate. I do think, for instance, that the >>> relation between the first derivative of a function and any point in that >>> function is analogous to the relation between the motivation of a behavior >>> and the behavior itself. >>> >>> i am back to weather again, after a vacation from it for my obsession >>> with unsuccessful vegetable gardening. Here is a quote from an >>> Atmospheric Dynamics text which is laying out the Coriolis Force. >>> >>> *What happens if we consider the hockey puck moving equator-ward >>> relative to the rotation of the Earth. In the absence of applied forces it >>> must conserve angular momentum. Upon being pulled equator-ward in the >>> northern hemisphere the radius of rotation of the puck begins to >>> increase.Consequently, an anti-rotational relative motion develops in order >>> to conserve angular momentum, [Italics by NST] * >>> >>> In the view of folks on this list, is this an appropriate use of telic >>> language, and why or why not? Stephen has a defensible argument in favor of >>> it's appropriateness, the only such argument I have ever heard. ( I don[t >>> buy the premises, but the argument is sound) I am wondering about the rest >>> of you. >>> >>> Nick >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > > -- > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology > Clark University > -- Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology Clark University
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
