As things slide off toward more and more (probability of and depth of)
authoriatarian intolerance I find myself trying to reign my self back in
to the question of what to do with my offense and real concern for the
nation (and world): I do I prepare to be a Schindler
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler> or a Bonhoffer
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer>?
Too many of my (more Lefty) acquaintances are ideating exhaustively
about "leaving the country" while I am trying to guess who more likely
to suffer acutely if Project 2025 and it's promulgators become the
standard than I (elderish professional class white male with a scruffy
beard, farmer's tan and a few callouses who is most comfortable wearing
jeans and workboots, who owns a pickup truck).
1. We have one friend who has been homeless in her life, has
significant emotional disabilities but has had her life on track for
over 10 years now, but only with significant "gub'mnt assistance".
Two of her three siblings are in even worse shape, living much
closer to the edge financially and mentally... she moved from here
to be close to them and help as she could 5 or 6 years ago. She is
baldfaced scared that her siblings and likely herself will end up on
the streets (again) in a heartbeat and possibly driven to worse
things in the process. I think *we* could help her enough that she
could keep helping her siblings avoid a complete failure to
thrive... so that is one thing.
2. Another is a friend who has finally obtained permanent resident
status after decades of bouncing between temporary work visas and
returning to the highlands of MX, all the time working as hard as he
could, birthing and raising two children (who are American Citizens
by birth, aka "anchor babies") and now some grandchildren. He
doesn't openly worry or grouse, but I could feel the relief when his
permanent residence status (and that of his wife in a similar time
frame) came through. While I think he is on the "safe" side of
immigration rules being turned inside out, I'm sure he is worried
about it as well as whether the intolerant elements of our community
might feel (more) liberated in directing their "performative
cruelty" in his family's direction. Helping him could come in many
forms, not sure what they are quite yet.
3. I'm sure there are others... others I won't think of until I sit
with it for a while?
Gary, how many "political refugees" can you take in there in Ecuador?
I doubt my canoe can traverse the coast around the Darien Gap, but it
might be worth a try... (probably trade it on the south-end for
something of value or at least some good intel on how to get to your
place?) or just stay here and channel Schindler and Bonhoffer?
- Steve
On 7/17/24 3:45 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
Well, as a theoretical matter, it's hard to say what would happen if
Biden were to try to knock off Trump. I can't in my wildest dreams
imagine that killing a political opponent would be considered to be an
official act of the president. As a practical matter? No chance he
would do more than fantasize about it, because I believe he is an
honorable man (for a politician) who cares about his legacy. What a
legacy that would be. But ignoring all that, if he *did* do it, just
remember which side (left or right) has the guns. And boy oh boy do
they have guns. It would at a minimum result in an armed, violent
insurrection, and I even wonder if the military would support him or
the insurrectionists. I certainly consider this type of action to be
treasonous.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 4:04 PM Russ Abbott<russ.abb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Don't want to drag this out forever, but ... The immunity decision is
extraordinarily dangerous precisely because it allows a President to break the
law and to ignore traditional safeguards and then to claim immunity if charges
are brought against him.
-- Russ Abbott
Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 7:19 AM glen<geprope...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, OK. It seems pretty clear that there are laws protecting citizens (that don't
protect non-citizens). Situations like arresting a citizen and holding them for a very
long time before charging them are the in-between wiggle room. And we have things like
opening investigations into them, etc. And it would be pretty easy to
"disappear" a nobody like me. I think it's not so easy to disappear Trump.
Anyway, there are some pretty hard constraints like due process, posse comitatus, and
such. The only way the President could make an assassination of a citizen plausible is to
deem them an enemy of the state, revoke their citizenship, present some flimsy
justification for that revocation, etc. And even then, as long as they're on US soil,
(again, to be legitimate) you'd want to use the ATF, FBI, ICE, or something, not the Navy
or CIA.
IDK. This scenario just feels like spy novel fantasy to me. It was a good quip
in the SCOTUS hearing. But there are too many holes in the mechanics to do it
with the appearance of legitimacy. (This says nothing of doing it Nixon- or
Hoover- style, of course.)
I am kinda on pins and needles to see what Chutkan makes of some of this,
though.
On 7/16/24 19:34, Russ Abbott wrote:
I think it's an official act if it involves the use of powers designated by the
Constitution as Presidential. As I understand the SCOTUS ruling, the motivation
for that use is not relevant. That's one of the things that's so terrible about
the immunity decision. Seal Team 6 and all that.
-- Russ
On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, 11:17 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com
<mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It's pretty hard for me to see how that would stand up in court. If assassination of
citizens, much less a fully cleared and daily int-briefed President-elect, is ultimately
ruled an "official" action, we've already lost the Republic and committing the
actual deed would be futile. No need to worry about losing the Republic if the Republic
is already lost.
On 7/16/24 10:47, Russ Abbott wrote:
> Why has no one pointed out the possibility that if Trump wins, Biden
could take advantage of his newly declared immunity and have him assassinated?
>
> -- Russ
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, 6:24 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com
<mailto:geprope...@gmail.com> <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com
<mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Yeah. It's one thing to wish it or want it. It's another to think
more in Marcus' terms and come up with a more complex strategy not involving
stupid 20 year olds and no violence at all. I still hold out hope for my own
personal conspiracy theory. Biden becomes the nominee. After the convention fades,
the Admnistration announces Biden has gone to the hospital for bone spur surgery.
Kamala takes over temporarily and campaigns furiously for Biden-Harris. Biden is
re-elected. Biden recovers and gets through the Oath (fingers crossed). Then he
goes back to the hospital with some minor thing like a dizzy spell. Kamala takes
over again. Biden's condition worsens. First Female President. Biden recovers and
becomes America's Grandpa.
>
> Come on Deep State. Make it happen. 8^D
>
> On 7/15/24 17:30, Russ Abbott wrote:
> > I wonder what Scott's response would have been to those of us
who, in response to the shooting, thought: better luck next time.
> > On 7/15/24 17:28, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >> It ignores the option of doing things quietly and indirectly.
> >> On 7/15/24 16:46, glen wrote:
> >>> [Scott's] Prayer
> >>>https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8117 <https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8117>
<https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8117 <https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8117>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently surrounded by people who believe intolerance is properly not tolerated. Scott's
message, here, seems extraordinary Christian, to me. (Real Christian, not the Christianism displayed in things like megachurches
and whatnot cfhttps://raymondsmullyan.com/books/who-knows/ <https://raymondsmullyan.com/books/who-knows/>
<https://raymondsmullyan.com/books/who-knows/ <https://raymondsmullyan.com/books/who-knows/>>). This faith that
"going high" will, in the long run, win out, seems naive to me. The temptation to "hoist the black flag and start
slitting throats" isn't merely a thresholded reaction, it's an intuitive grasp of the iterated prisoner's dilemma,
tit-for-tat style strategies, and Ashby's LoRV. But I'm open to changing my mind on that. Maybe I'm just too low-brow?
> >>>
--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
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