That's unfortunate. I'm trying to say that any 1 thing has nothing in common with any other thing.
But we shouldn't be too hard on people who are tricked by abstraction into believing in nonsense
like "communication" or "morphic resonance". But maybe I'm not as familiar with
Sheldrake's other ideas beneath the paranormal stuff?
On 2/20/23 08:11, Prof David West wrote:
I am hearing echoes of Rubert Sheldrake in your last sentence
davew
On Mon, Feb 20, 2023, at 8:46 AM, glen wrote:
Despite the ambiguity both Nick and DaveW rely on when they use the
word "dualism", the "psyche" in panpsychism need not be dualist.
Experience monism is a kind of panpsychism. When I asserted that there
is something that it is like to be dirt, I'm not implying there is a
difference between "psyche" and ... matter or whatever else there may
be. I'm asserting that whatever it is to be dirt is the *same* as
whatever it is to be human.
By even using the phrases "mental stuff" or "mental life", *you* are
implicitly asserting there are 2 things: mental and non-mental. There
is no such difference, in my opinion. Now, while I am often a moron, I
don't deny that people *think* there's a difference. E.g. when you
finally get that snap of understanding while running, or taking a
shower or whatever, about some concept you've been working on, it
*feels* like pure mentation. The shift just feels cognitive, not
bodily. But I would maintain my stance that this is an abstraction, a
sloughing off of the bodily details. (The illusion is a byproduct of
focus and attention, which are mechanical implementations of
abstraction.) My stance is that, however cognitive such things feel,
they aren't. You wouldn't, *could not*, have arrived at that state
without your body, or if you had a different body.
Yes, as long as your body is *similar* to others' bodies, you could
arrive at a *similar* understanding, but not the same.
On 2/18/23 05:29, Eric Charles wrote:
On 2/16/23 23:35, ⛧ glen wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "mental stuff", of course.
Well... In this context, I mean whatever the "psyche" part of panpsychism
entails.
Given that I don't believe in disembodied minds, I'm with you 100% on everything you do being
"body stuff". Which, presumably, leads to the empirical question of what types of bodies
do "psyche", and where those types of bodies can be found.
You say further that: 'No. Neither the dirt nor I do "mental stuff"'.
Well, now we have something to actually talk about then! Dave West,
unsurprisingly, stepped in strongly on the side of dirt having psyche in at
least a rudimentary form, I presume he would assert that you (Glen) do mental
stuff too. Dave also asserts that his belief in panpsychism /does/ affect how
he lives in the world. Exactly to the extent that his way of living in the
world is made different by the belief, panpsychism /_is_/ more than just
something he says.
Steve's discussion about what it would feel like to be the bit of dirt trampled
beneath a particular foot is a bit of a tangent - potentially interesting in
its own right. His discussion of when he, personally, starts to attribute
identity - and potentially psyche - to clumps of inanimate stuff seems directly
on topic, especially as he too has listed some ways his behaviors change when
he becomes engaged in those habits.
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