Maybe. But I don't think it's generosity that's required. I think it's humility that's
required. Anyone who both engages a group of strangers about identity *and* identifies in
a non-standard way is already demonstrating that they're not too damaged. Or, I'd turn
the tables and say that the snowflakes in this conversation (the Scientismists) are too
damaged for the conversation ... damaged by their entrenched, enculturation into,
Scientism. The one guy's exclamation "Gametes are real" was obviously an
indicator that the other participants would either have to play by *his* nutty rules or
wait for him to dial down his jargon-laced gobbledygook and have a real conversation with
ordinary people.
On 3/3/22 12:56, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Glen writes:
< I think they're just defense mechanisms they've learned over years of abuse. >
The defense mechanisms could be more like acquired allergies and do harm. Once one is
dealing with reflexive mechanisms, I start to worry that a conversation is not possible.
Because they would 1) need to learn to control those mechanisms (and who wants to take
the time for them to do that) or 2) claim "You [the man] made me this may, now live
with it." (and then adapt to their nutty rules).
There seems to be a need for some generosity to help people cope, but it seems
plausible to me some people are just too damaged. Does the absence of
generosity make one a snowflake?
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 12:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] academic freedom
Yeah, that's a good take. It also helps in distinguishing between reflexive defense
mechanisms and cryptic character traits. Where me and the biologist who felt shut down
disagree is in the interpretation of the non-cis participants word and body language
choices. He thinks they're reflections of character traits. I think they're just defense
mechanisms they've learned over years of abuse. In the non-binary person's case, they
have an entire non-estranged, continually engaged, family that rejects their identity. So
their body and word language is probably an example of them saying to the white cis
biologists "pull yourselves together and we'll try again later." But I'm
willing to be shown wrong if that's the case.
On 3/3/22 12:36, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Hmm. Another experience I have had while deconstructing someone with "charged feelings"
is coming to the ought-to-be-obvious recognition that neither of us care about the other, but
nonetheless the counterparty who feels compelled to share their boring feelings believes it is my
job to patiently listen to them work through their issues (even though they would never do the same
for me). Canceling could just mean "Pull yourself together and we'll try again next
week."
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 12:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] academic freedom
Ha! No, I was making a point about freedom of speech, in particularly
"academic" speech, and canceling or shutting down others. Sorry if my anecdote
got in the way. I pared it down for you below.
On 3/3/22 12:16, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Anyway, I guess you were making some point about people getting riled up at a
pub, and that it being informative somehow. (Or at least entertaining?)
On 3/3/22 11:02, glen wrote:
Nobody was actively trying to shut anyone down. But the more conservative
biologist actively claims the non-binary and queer participants *were* trying
to shut down the biologists and had clearly shut down their reasoning. I
disagree completely.
--
glen
When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.
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