I wonder if behaviorists feel the same. They will observe their behavior to learn how they feel.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:10 PM David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu> wrote: > Was it Joan Jett who penned the lyrics “I don’t give a damn about being > out of favor" > > On Sep 17, 2021, at 8:08 AM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I should have said "out of favor" instead of "bad reputation". > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 3:50 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I don't think psychologists in general use language that way. >> Behaviorists may. When I was a graduate student in psychology 55 years ago >> behaviorism had a bad reputation, at least at Carnegie Mellon but I suspect >> at other places that emphasized theories of cognition. >> >> After a year I switched to the grad program in math because I couldn't >> cope with the ambiguities. I was young >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 3:32 PM David Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu> >> wrote: >> >>> This is where there is a style of use of language that may be unique to >>> Nick among all humans, or may be a tribal custom among the psychologists, >>> but which the common man needs to be aware exists, so that he knows that >>> the way Nick/psychologists use words will be directly opposed to the way >>> the common man has always used them. >>> >>> If that question disappears for you under those circumstances, then I >>> can simply admit that a pleasure is just the behavioral transition that >>> occurs upon the achievement of set of circumstances, and escape the >>> tautology by defining a goal as the organization of behavior that points >>> to a set of circumstances. >>> >>> >>> So, in archery, the way the archer points the bow (organization of >>> behavior) is the “goal”, and the event of an arrow’s hitting a bullseye is >>> somehow not a goal. Nick didn’t happen to use the word “function” in the >>> clip above; I have no idea what he would say a “function” is, but in the >>> earlier posts, it was as bizarrely glossed to me as this glossing of goal, >>> so I can’t even come up with a guess for how to imitate it. >>> >>> The plugging in of an address for the supermarket to the GPS while >>> sitting in the car in the driveway (organization of behavior) is the goal, >>> not the event of my arriving at the supermarket. >>> >>> For me as a mechanic, the bullseye as a position for arrows is the goal >>> (applied to an object), or the event of the arrow’s arriving there is a >>> goal (applied to an outcome of a behavior) that serves as a selection >>> criterion among directions in which a bow might be pointed. My pointing >>> the bow one way versus another is to me a function for attaining that >>> goal. The event of arriving at a supermarket is the goal that serves as a >>> criterion for selection of which GPS location I plug in; the act of >>> plugging in that address is then a function for attaining that goal. >>> >>> I know that, in response to this, Nick will reply with a sequence of >>> English-language words that I find even more unparseable than the ones >>> above. >>> >>> The meditators do this too. If I comment that, as a mechanic, I am >>> interested in what would get people to be more restrained in the use of >>> excesses of power when they find themselves in possession of such, to try >>> to unwind the death spiral that is leading to the dissolution of the >>> society, I know that the meditators will say “Poor child, lost in samsara, >>> he doesn’t realize that all these things he refers to are just illusion.” >>> If I say to them that this is what I expect them to say, the meditators >>> get annoyed at me because they think I am insulting them. They say “when >>> we say, over and over again, in the first pages of every piece of our >>> literature, and again every three pages after that, that `all that is >>> illusion’ “, we don’t mean that all that is illusion. You strawman us. >>> Seriously? >>> >>> I guess that’s how either discipline-specific or idiosyncratic speech >>> habits work. What is unexplainably self-evident to one person is >>> mystifying to somebody else. >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,gRN3Nm3PAYnsLtSOcbnoO9--B0l2dPustKvRs3L9QwBFoPYUkVIjwVuW1S6QjVOKPuPqpLcJRvqTI9_67moyra1PU1548tCK0bVHpXuAYQY_lQVy1U0,&typo=1> >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,fZy9kq5o2SiMY1zu6gle2t9hbETdnBOW3hLpzaGLNcO1ckg07j95x13tutRNf-DKWzHT7zf1mY4lMkLRhRzx_aYiFwPlNoroNyFr8MspAfRx6kbljtGmFpJ-&typo=1> >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,j4La7SW0LgM5LOXqjylGNVuhk8tHLb5SyZ2bKXQrSsJ2FBiDSpQajeoYDa9Yn-LWrULylV1R-qkr_UtRX_Sgb8nQGmwc5hgnza7XIm0SmPYbTOP9ND34Vg,,&typo=1> >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,6BvVUEcCcqWIAdVFY4gr2T2mY9xKqLhtiPpKGdSVNzm-5-29TE2S43uWDgfx2B7bZNI9Nw9lmauSphx7vATy7Oj_fj3gQOj9p5QI7dldYnGZtAdCqBcuAzv1&typo=1> >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,dT3x79gzW79Q47bBpNjAdKUBjJZut1t-N3ba4I2L4k8bBruN92aOjZby_QboZ-Z8k1s4LYwy2-aS4yqVKK5jwPaTTtZvjubc-Sm0fUK6XyyhnIcWXGw,&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xbzwCkPqGEF7oHVtgJ40Et7JVG_w_lMUi5iwlAQOq2Bira0rY4L7_WDeMJfrZkRbWg9hxlH79aFXxFA-IGwc9EctryCdrrVYS5On8bhxvEAyLAV2Hw,,&typo=1 > archives: > 5/2017 thru present > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,fjDvqh-D-oZ-TyEAvd7SU2IM7LzobBrjgZR-8u-fH-NZ6k7xtsIdrESAOx4R4--wRHYRh9wBCgajOcjcwSkMmM8_qew6gQjf1l8VQYtUr_N9SA,,&typo=1 > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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