Wow, Glen, No doubt about it. Dreams are experiences. Fake only in the sense that they don't prove out. Small comfort when you are in the middle of one. I used to fly in my dreams...really.... FLY! Funny how dreams peel off like onions, as bit-by-bit, they fail to prove out. So, when the air beneath my wings failed me, it would be in steps.
Nick Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 2:08 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc Speaking of dreams ... I had this very vivid color dream sitting on "my" patio, a patio I've never actually seen in woke fugues, behind a house I've never actually seen while awake, watching a non-biomimetically tall deciduous tree that doesn't exist bend to some high winds. An impossibly long branch from that tree broke off an flattened a couple of parts of the house. In the dream, I surveyed the damage and kept thinking "that part's OK, I was gonna tear that down anyway", "that part sucks, redoing the brick so that it matches will be difficult". Etc. I woke up right in the middle of the survey *still* thinking I was thinking about an actual house until I snapped and remembered the house I actually live in (no brick, no impossibly high trees, no patio). That purely internal experience was the most vivid one I've had since I was a kid, woke or asleep, and not merely visually, physically too, though it was clearly fake because I had no back pain, no headache, none of the chronic pains I always feel when I'm awake. On 9/14/21 10:58 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > > On 9/14/21 10:29 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: >> Yeah, well. Were I fully liberated, I'd be doing a lot more, and a lot more >> diverse, drugs than I do. Reading books is all well and good. But my guess >> is the experience of liberty is more expansive than intellectual knowledge >> of liberty. It takes a magician to truly appreciate magic. > > This would be the basis of my support for "the ineffable". Not that > thinking about an experience in linguistic terms isn't possible, > rewarding, even insightful, it is not precisely *the same* as the > experience, if even close. > > *watching/hearing/smelling/feeling/tasting others* having an > experience seems *more* apt to inform (apologies to NST) me > empathetically/mirror-neurologically, but actually *having* the > experience is still somewhat it's own thing. > > Having *had* the experience allows (perhaps) the > linguistic/intellectual and the empathetic/mirror-neuron triggers to > help me (re) access those experiences in some inner way. Just because > when watching the Williams sisters play tennis doesn't cause me to > shift my weight to plant my feet and flex my racquet grip and swing an > arm, doesn't mean the fact of having played thousands of hours of > tennis in my lie doesn't give me a significantly different experience > from what I might think I "know" of Jai Alai or Cricket or Curling or even > Golf ferGawdSakez! > > I've reported my "locomotion" dreams before, but this puts a nice > emphasis on what I suspect to be the difference between even my most > extravagant running, jumping, swimming, tree-swinging dreams and my > levitating/flying/soaring and especially my orbital mechanics dreams. > The latter is *entirely* symbolic while flying at least is fed (or > informed?) by what I see in birds flight and my trivial amount of > private piloting (but never > hang-gliding/ultra-lighting/ram-chuting/squirrel-suiting). > > My proto/neo-libertarian nature comes (I postulate) from my having had > a > *fairly* liberated early life where the primary restrictions I > experienced (allowed to constrain me) were the "hard knocks" variety > NOT involving other people (especially near-peers). I've always felt > claustrophobic/cramped when confronted with social norms which is not > to say I think those norms are *evil* or even *wrongheaded*, just > "inconvenient". The longer I live, the more experiences I have which > help me to not only distinguish the "wrongheaded" from the > "inconvenient" but also how to *navigate* the isoclines of a > high-dimensional socio-political landscape on my own terms and thereby > spend less time yelling at the TV or shaking my fist at the kids who > need to "get off my lawn!". > > - Steve > >> >> On 9/14/21 9:11 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: >>> He was the Mill that had a scandalous affair >>> <https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/10/05/the-scandalous-love-affair-that-fuelled-john-stuart-mills-feminism> >>> and went on seances with the likes of Erasmus Darwin. [Charles never had >>> any truck for that sort of thing.] Mill sure knew what it was to be >>> cancelled. > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > -- "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." ☤>$ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . 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