Duly noted. On Fri, Jan 29, 2021, 5:22 PM Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote:
> The term “computational thinking” incorporates all the points you brought > up. > > Ed > _______________________ > > Ed Angel > > Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory > (ARTS Lab) > Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico > > 1017 Sierra Pinon > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu > 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel > > On Jan 29, 2021, at 3:49 PM, Tom Johnson <t...@jtjohnson.com> wrote: > > And I would gently suggest (not argue) that before ""algorithmic thinking" > we should teach systems thinking/analysis: what will be the system in > question and its defined boundaries, what the variables/agents within the > system, the input/output relationships between those variables under what > context/conditions, how do we measure change in the system and is the > system capable of "learning," i.e. adapting to internal and external > changes in its environment. > > With these steps we can start to discuss algorithms. So there! Harump! > TJ > > ============================================ > Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com > <https://www.cloudhq-mkt9.net/mail_track/link/c70c01c9422b17194f_1611960559845?uid=226430&url=mailto%3Atom%40jtjohnson.com> > Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA > 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) > *NM Foundation for Open Government* > <https://www.cloudhq-mkt9.net/mail_track/link/c70c01c9422b17194f_1611960559845?uid=226430&url=https%3A%2F%2Fl.shitrk.com%2Fr%2Fe%2F5KGR4cK9ZgaHrMkPr%3Fr%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fnmfog.org%2F> > *Check out It's The People's Data > <https://www.cloudhq-mkt9.net/mail_track/link/c70c01c9422b17194f_1611960559845?uid=226430&url=https%3A%2F%2Fl.shitrk.com%2Fr%2Fe%2FBNmKkirWv12Frw9Pg%3Fr%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2FIts-The-Peoples-Data%2F1599854626919671>* > > ============================================ > > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:00 PM George Duncan <gtdun...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I certainly agree with Ed. Coding does indeed suggest the final stage for >> a particular language--should that colon instead be on a semi-colon. I >> would, though, argue for "algorithmic thinking" rather than "computational >> thinking". >> >> George Duncan >> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University >> georgeduncanart.com >> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram >> Land: (505) 983-6895 >> Mobile: (505) 469-4671 >> >> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and >> luminous chaos. >> >> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may >> then be a valuable delusion." >> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn. >> >> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest >> power." Joanna Macy. >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:53 PM Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >> >>> Going back to Dave’s original post, to me a big part of the issue is >>> what is meant by “coding.” Unfortunately for manys in CS education, coding >>> has come to refer only to the very last step in a complex process; namely, >>> converting a final detailed set of instructions into computer code for a >>> particular computer language. This is especially true of what as happened >>> in the schools with programs that claim to teach coding and STEM. It’s why >>> many of us prefer to use the term “computational thinking” when dealing >>> with CS education. >>> >>> If coding is just the final step (which could be replaced by a machine, >>> if not now but soon) then it would be orthogonal to all these other skills. >>> >>> Ed >>> _______________________ >>> >>> Ed Angel >>> >>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>> (ARTS Lab) >>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>> >>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>> >>> On Jan 27, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Prof David West <profw...@fastmail.fm> >>> wrote: >>> >>> For a while now there has been a huge push to teach kids how to code. >>> Ostensibly because it enhances skills like language, logic, and math; plus, >>> "computer literacy" is essential in a world filled with computers. >>> >>> A study at MIT suggests that coding skill is orthogonal to reading skill >>> and has little, if any, influence on development of logic/math skills. >>> >>> An article in the Journal of Neuroscience argues that if you want to >>> increase the "skills and brainpower" of kids you should teach them music. >>> >>> I came across this information peripherally and have not read the >>> specific research reported on. I *want* the reports to be accurate >>> representation of the research because it confirms long held biases against >>> the value of "computational thinking" and computer science as a fundamental >>> knowledge domain. >>> >>> dave west >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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