Hi Peter, By all means. I do not intend either aggression or even disrespect toward anybody who will argue any position honestly and in good faith.
The thing that I was attacking below, and which I think needs to be regarded as an existential threat, is what I interpret as coordinated acting in bad faith. By that I mean a sort of dishonesty of motive, where the real motive is not at all the wellbeing of anybody on the receiving end. Many tactics go into that: deception, bullying, impoverishment, and more overt things. We have a crisis of bad faith in many dimensions, certainly in this country with which I am most familiar, but perhaps more widely. There is no statement that only means what it claims to be about. Any statement, with a dishonest motive, can be used for a purpose that isn’t what it claims to be about. That is on the sending end. On the receiving end, when there is a belief that all senders act in bad faith (whether or not that blame is earned), the receiver can choose to reject any statement, no matter how good its content is capable of being. We are in a bad downward spiral in that exchange. There is enough usage in bad faith that in some cases it justifies the cynicism of listeners, and in many more cases, it gives their cynicism a convenient rationalization. On the other side, when people give up thinking they have agency, but remain alive, cynicism and rejection and a general destructiveness can be a recourse to sinking just into frustration. I think those choices are mistakes, but I don’t think they necessarily deserve blame, and they certainly warrant an attitude of helpfulness and committed caring. Anybody who picks up a tool with the intention of genuinely helping others, and having the humility to understand that it is hard to know how to do that, but necessary to keep trying, is eligible to be a comrade of mine. All best, Eric > On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Pieter Steenekamp <piet...@randcontrols.co.za> > wrote: > > Is it possible to have, in this group, a civil discussion where the accepted > view of the IPCC that unless we reduce CO2 emissions we are heading for > disaster is challenged? > > On 29 December 2017 at 20:25, Eric Smith <desm...@santafe.edu> wrote: > I agree with both Glen and Jillian, > > this is more on the right tack. It’s not about stupidity. It’s about a kind > of character degeneracy further down, and a certain kind of vileness that > becomes possible at that level. > > I would add one thing to Jill’s and Glen’s emphasis (attention trolling), > which is that this is about thugs. That goes beyond the executive to an > increasingly purified right wing since Gingrich’s tactics in (the 80s?). It > is not that they don’t know “the truth” of a matter; it is an active war on > the existence of truth as a public good, or of anything else that impedes the > exercise of thug power. Nick has articulated this cleanly in several emails, > over the past months. > > But again, anger and outrage are for people. Or for something close enough > to people that there is anything redeemable about it. Disinfectants and > vaccines are for public health problems. No less commitment, but a different > kind, and hopefully a more focused mind. > > Eric > > > > On Dec 29, 2017, at 10:49 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > You called it, Gillian. Trump and his ilk (Milo, Spencer, etc.) thrive on > > their ability to invoke. Beliefs and knowledge take a back seat, which is > > why they are so capable of munging the facts and changing their tune when > > confronted. > > > > So I have to disagree fundamentally with Nick, Merle, Tom, Frank, and > > Pamela. He's not "that stupid". In fact, that question is irrelevant. He > > simply knows how to push the buttons, especially of the well-intentioned > > people who care about beliefs and knowledge. > > > > On 12/29/2017 09:40 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > >> He is one of these: > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll > > > > -- > > ☣ uǝlƃ > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
