@Terren. So you're not sure if you exist ? On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 03:07:17 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote:
> The claim that "consciousness is all that exists" is metaphysics. You > cannot prove that, but that doesn't stop you from saying things like > "energy doesn't exist" as if it were a fact. > > The ultimate nature of reality is a mystery. I don't put much stock in > people who speak in certainties about such things. > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 3:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> @Terren. What metaphysics ? Your existence is metaphysics ? Or is a >> matter of obvious fact ? >> >> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 19:18:21 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >> >>> Prove that you admit everything. Admit that your assertion that >>> *consciousness >>> is all that exists* is metaphysical - it cannot be proved. The same is >>> true of the claim that matter and energy are all that exists. Both are >>> metaphysical statements. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 12:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I always admit everything. It seems to you that I don't because I keep >>>> saying "Consciousness is all there is". While that sentence is true, so >>>> while that proves with 100% certainty that there is no matter, it still >>>> doesn't give the full details of consciousness. >>>> >>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 18:21:13 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think that's the first time you've ever admitted you don't >>>>> understand something fully. I recommend you keep going in that direction. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 11:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I also said: "if we were to understand consciousness fully, then we >>>>>> will know for sure what to expect after death." As of today, we don't >>>>>> understand consciousness fully. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 16:54:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> When you said this: "And in case we would expect happiness, then we >>>>>>> will even stop finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer." >>>>>>> So >>>>>>> instead of celebrating cancer, why not skip the painful parts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 3:29:59 PM UTC-5 Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Where did I say that the next life will be better ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 22:09:01 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Serious question - what's stopping you from killing yourself and >>>>>>>>> speeding up the transition to happiness? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm millionaire, why would I need a job ? Also, if we were to >>>>>>>>>> understand consciousness fully, then we will know for sure what to >>>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>>> after death. And in case we would expect happiness, then we will >>>>>>>>>> even stop >>>>>>>>>> finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer. All of our >>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>> decisions are made based on incomplete knowledge of the truth. As >>>>>>>>>> such, we >>>>>>>>>> make the decisions based on what we imagine reality to be, not on >>>>>>>>>> what it >>>>>>>>>> actually is. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:37:03 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 12:30:07 PM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It depends what kind of person you are. If you are a depressed >>>>>>>>>>> person, curing you of cancer will not do any good. On the contrary, >>>>>>>>>>> if you >>>>>>>>>>> would have died you would havd gotten a chance at happiness in the >>>>>>>>>>> next >>>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *You have to be right. Stop your BS, assuming you know more than >>>>>>>>>>> you actually do, or get a job, or jerkoff, but no more of your >>>>>>>>>>> stupidity. >>>>>>>>>>> AG * >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:06:51 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I just opened a topic a while back about the definition of the >>>>>>>>>>> word "useful" that you keep abusing. Let's remind you: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Useful = whatever increases happiness. >>>>>>>>>>> Useless = whatever doesn't increase happiness. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My philosophy, I guarantee you 100%, increases happiness, so is >>>>>>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>>>>>> Getting cured of cancer might still let you depressed, so cancer >>>>>>>>>>> cure is useless. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *You can't be very conscious and make such a hugely stupid >>>>>>>>>>> comment. Don't ya think that being cured of cancer is immensely >>>>>>>>>>> happier >>>>>>>>>>> than succumbing to it? AG* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 19:59:29 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> How do you expect you can properly fix a car if you don't know >>>>>>>>>>> how it function ? You just do guesswork, you give it a few kicks >>>>>>>>>>> and maybe >>>>>>>>>>> it starts. This is how present-day science works given that it >>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work >>>>>>>>>>> based on fundamentals, namely based on the working of >>>>>>>>>>> consciousness. Sure, >>>>>>>>>>> you can keep doing research this way: kick it till it works. And >>>>>>>>>>> you might >>>>>>>>>>> save a few lives. But if you were start from fundamentals, then you >>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> know exactly what you were doing and you will save 8 billion lives. >>>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>>> that it would matter at that point, given that at that level of >>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>> we will manipulate consciousness to such a degree that we will not >>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>> need bodies anymore. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *About 60 years ago I met a fellow with your philosophy, a >>>>>>>>>>> Master of Yoga, an adept at "Traditional Science", author of >>>>>>>>>>> several books, >>>>>>>>>>> who claimed with great authority that the problem of cancer had >>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>> "solved". He never got cancer but died of a heart failure around >>>>>>>>>>> age 80 in >>>>>>>>>>> 2008. AG* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *My point is that people with your philosophy often make huge >>>>>>>>>>> claims, with rarely anything practical forthcoming. For example, >>>>>>>>>>> during the >>>>>>>>>>> Covid pandemic, a company named Moderna produced a vaccine in >>>>>>>>>>> record time, >>>>>>>>>>> using knowledge of DNA, viruses, etc. They couldn't have done that >>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>> the discovery of DNA, which no doubt required by the invention of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Electron Microscope. Talk is cheap. We can do great things in the >>>>>>>>>>> absence >>>>>>>>>>> of your vague philosophy. Can you actually DO something useful, or >>>>>>>>>>> is it >>>>>>>>>>> all talk? AG * >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:17:26 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:11:38 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @Alan. You can do cancer research. But since that research is >>>>>>>>>>> not based on fundamental ideas about reality, it will be just >>>>>>>>>>> guesswork: >>>>>>>>>>> Just try 1000 different drugs and cross fingers that one might >>>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>>> Instead, if people would actually understand consciousness, they >>>>>>>>>>> would cure >>>>>>>>>>> cancer in 1 week. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *I might believe that if you were able to contribute ANYTHING to >>>>>>>>>>> ANY problem discussed here. All I read are grandiose claims with >>>>>>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>>>>>> practical forthcoming. AG* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:08:48 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:01:18 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can continue cancer research. But is just like playing World >>>>>>>>>>> of Warcraft in order to get the legendary gear. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *If you get cancer, which is not my wish, you can tell your >>>>>>>>>>> doctor that the pain and suffering is purely imaginary, not to >>>>>>>>>>> mention the >>>>>>>>>>> possible early termination of your life. Now, do us all a favor and >>>>>>>>>>> cease >>>>>>>>>>> posting like a fool. AG * >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *You didn't answer my question. Should cancer research be >>>>>>>>>>> stopped, and if not why not? * >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 9:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You make the classical confusion between epistemology and >>>>>>>>>>> ontology. Only because you can watch a movie with Spider-Man >>>>>>>>>>> (epistemology), it doesn't follow that Spider-Man exists (ontology). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 15:39:31 UTC+2 John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 8:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *>>the question of list moderation would not be relevant at this >>>>>>>>>>> time if one very recent list member didn't think page after page of >>>>>>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>>>>>> but "(:>)" characters was an intelligent rebuttal, and ALL >>>>>>>>>>> scientific >>>>>>>>>>> questions of the form "what is the nature of X?" can be answered by >>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>> saying "X does not exist".* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *> Of course, given that consciousness is all there is. Why >>>>>>>>>>> would you waste time talking about things that don't exist ?* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *So there's no point in doing cancer research because cancer >>>>>>>>>>> does not exist? Do I have that right? * >>>>>>>>>>> * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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