On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 3:14:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Aug 2020, at 08:07, Alan Grayson <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > >> Concerning the Turing test, It makes no theoretical sense, but it can >> make some local practical sense. >> > > I am not conversant with your system or definitions. All I am asserting is > that we believe we are conscious, or shall we say we have a property called > "consciousness", but are unable to define exactly (or even approximately?) > what it is. > > > OK. But we can make approximation, like “knowledge” or “knowledge of > oneself”. Knowledge can be defined axiomatically, but the personal > knowledge attached to consciousness, or even just the knowledge of a > machine or of any third-person definable entity is not definable by that > entity, without invoking a Truth operator (itself not definable by that > entity, by Traski theorem). > > > > Hence, if we encounter a humanoid-type robot that can verbally respond or > interact with us, even in the form of a black box, we lack any criteria for > determining IF it is conscious. But the movie offers a hint of what to look > for. At first I thought it was the concept of time, but that's wrong. The > entity in question could have been supplied with a clock and thus could > respond as if the concept of time exists; present, past and future. But > that's insufficient to qualify for being "conscious". You should view the > movie and see what it suggests to you. AG > > > > Consciousness attribution is always a sort of projection of oneself to the > other(s). We attribute consciousness to an entity when we can recognise > oneself in that entity. We could be wrong, of course, like a kid > attributing a soul to its Teddy Bear. > > You might tell what the movie suggests. (Just put a spoiler alert in the > title of the post) >
I didn't do that to test the level of interest. AG > > Bruno > > > > >> >> I think Ex Machina provides an answer of what we need to look for. Please >> view it and report back. But do NOT read the plot, say in Wiki. It's a >> spoiler. AG >> >> >> Can we find it on Youtube or similar? >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6c3c8eba-542c-45a6-a79f-ca54202fdcc8o%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6c3c8eba-542c-45a6-a79f-ca54202fdcc8o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1bcf344b-250f-4ced-a69b-57d14d1c46cdo%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1bcf344b-250f-4ced-a69b-57d14d1c46cdo%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f37880e2-624c-44fe-9662-b7c20296b5f7o%40googlegroups.com.
