Michael Ross wrote: > All the comments on this thread have failed to actually understand > what he is talking about, or even watch it, seemingly.
I watched it, and think I do understand his point. Our high-tech society is using up huge amounts of resources for quick and easy short-term gains. It will be very difficult to keep this up in the future. But this is the EV Discussion list. The focus here is naturally on EVs; not the global supply situation in its entirety. Our little part of the problem is to do what we can about the future of transportation. I also think he focuses too much on "if this goes on..." As an engineer, I know that there alternatives for just about *every* material and resource. If you can't get copper, use aluminum. If you can't get aluminum, the periodic table is full of other metals. They may not be perfect; but they'll work. Even steel gets used as a replacement for copper. Just about every resistor, capacitor, and integrated circuit uses steel for its lead wires (go ahead and check; you can pick them up with a magnet). And the auto companies think nothing of using a vehicle's steel body as the ground return conductor. I am sure there will be material shortages in the future. But I am also confident that we will find ways to deal with it. More recycling. Find ways to use less to do the job. Use other materials. Lee -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com He says if you add up all the copper in the world, how it has to get used, where more comes from, the time it takes to ramp production, accounting for recycling, and so on, we are in trouble. Likewise, paladiums, tin, aluminum (take enormous amounts of electricity), magnet materials, and so on, we come up way short. None of you out here make it your business to ferret out all the details. This is Zeihan's business and he has research staff behind him. I recommend his most recent book which has a very interesting chapter on industrial materials. It is short and not fleshed out fully, but I follow his logic, and don't believe he has anything pushing him to make stuff up. He likes the outdoors and wants a clean environment. But, he seems certain that making any headway won't come from electrification except after many decades, potentially a century. If he is anywhere near correct, then we need to reconfigure our efforts. Now. On Sun, Nov 5, 2023, 2:19 PM Thos True via EV wrote: > I find it difficult to believe that we are once again being drawn into the > argument that the grid cannot support the demand for EV's. > Society has been in this situation several times since the early 1900's. > With each new electrical product's popularity (televisions, refrigerators, > air conditioners, hot tubs, washers and dryers, motorhomes, Mcmansions, > housing developments, fast food restaurants, factories, etc), the same > fearful cry was heard. Development of "the grid" has been ahead of demand > in the majority of markets, as they are a business that wants to sell as > much of their products as possible. Even when the demand levels off, > utilities are continuously upgrading the equipment with more efficient > devices to maximize output utilizing the same foot print ( fenced in > facilities, usually). > Most vehicles use around the same amount of electricity per charge as > running a dryer for a couple of cycles (how many people think twice about > doing that?). > Just my 2 watts worth, > Tom True > > On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 5:32 PM EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote: > > > Well, once again, it looks like the thread has strayed from EV's into > > politics... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Rush Dougherty > > TucsonEV > > 1014 E King St > > Tucson AZ 85719 > > 520 240 7493 > > www.TucsonEV.com > > > > > > > > > > EV List Lackey wrote - > > > "To understand the Republican party, or the Democratic party, for that > > matter, > > it is > > > most efficient to look directly at the clients -- or as political > > scientist > > Thomas > > > Ferguson would call them, the 'major investors.' > > > On that level, the ideological contradictions are unimportant. > Political > > parties do > > > function as mediating institutions, just not for voters." > > > > > > -- William Greider, "Who Will Tell the People" > > > > Well, once again, it looks like the thread has strayed from EV's into > > politics... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Rush Dougherty > > TucsonEV > > www.TucsonEV.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231105/46f5d507/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
