I do think it's fair to give these things a chance in the public
marketplace, especially if it could be in a moderate passenger EV that
tries to highlight some of their strengths and not their weaknesses. I
personally still would not consider buying one unless or until we see
extensive uninhibited feedback from unbiased drivers simply talking
about their experiences, good, bad or indifferent.
A part of the problem is that such motors have been mentioned various
times as integral to saving energy and being part of an important EV
project, and then, somehow, they just don't quite make it to where we
can consider buying it.
It's been a long time, but taking a quick look around I see these two
in-wheel hub motor providers are still in theory trying to make a go of
it. There may be many more (perhaps someone can say who Aptera is using
if it isn't already clear), but just noting these two:
https://www.proteanelectric.com/
more than a decade ago, I seem to remember them issuing a white paper
that attempted to lay out some of the arguments in-favor-of, and address
some of the criticisms. I don't know where things stand these days, but
taking a way-overly-quick look, it does seem at least they are still in
discussion with some automakers:
https://www.proteanelectric.com/news/
for example:
28.Apr.23
Dongfeng Motor Showcases All-Wheel Drive Luxury Sedan Powered By
ProteanDrive, Weeks After Announcing Version Driven By Two In-Wheel Motors
and we have this other blast-from-the-past:
https://www.saietta.com/about-us/
however, I don't know if they are presently trying to offer the in-wheel
product. I don't presently see language about it on their page.
On 7/17/2023 1:28 PM, Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote:
Or maybe, and try to stick with me here, just maybe, this company that has
spent tons of money up front on research and development that has test
articles which achieve <100Wh/mile at freeway speeds has somehow engineered
high quality hub motors. I don;t think there is anything in physics which
dictates that hub motors are impossible to "get right" for automotive yes.
Sure there are plenty of examples of poorly implemented or designed hub
motors in the past, Lordstown using (perhaps these same Elaphe?) motors but
on a multi ton pickup truck is an example of a poor implantation? I can't
say for sure, and we have all heard the pros and cons of unsprung mass etc
etc. But I am also hearing a lot of glossing over the benefits of such
motor packaging, which if you looked at the body design of the Aptera,
their offroad three motor version just can not work be bringing these
motors inboard. Anyway, perhaps we will get to experience one first hand
within a year or so. Just remember that everything was impossible until it
was not, so long as physics allows.
On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 4:51 PM (-Phil-) via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
Then you call it a normal motor!
And instead of making a lot of poles and super high currents (inefficient)
to get reasonable torque like most hub motors, you can put a gear reduction
in and now you are like most all production EVs. Most use a single motor,
gear reduction, then a differential. Some like the Lucid Air and the Tesla
Plaid use dual motors, one for each side, so just the motor and gear
reduction. Then you get to do torque vectoring as well.
On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 4:18 PM Robert Johnston via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
I wonder if you could take hub motors and mount them inboard, so instead
of
a differential you'd have back-to-back "hub"motors connected to
driveshafts. So you don't have the unsprung weight of hub motors, but you
do get the advantages of electronically controllable torque per wheel.
On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 at 16:58, Josh Landess via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
it does sound like a shame they went with hub motors. Otherwise, the
vehicle is something I could consider buying. Well, I'll keep an eye
out for early owner reports and maybe if they seem "ok", I'll still
consider it someday. Or maybe if the company gets harsh feedback from
owners it will redesign the vehicle to incorporate non-hub motors.
On 7/11/2023 4:57 AM, jerry freedomev wrote:
Hi Josh and All,
Hub motors are bad for 2 reasons, they have little start up torque
and to make up for they require heavy powerful motors.
They are great in non suspension Ebikes, etc where it can be much
smaller as gets help with a leg push/pedal for starting up.
As a lightweight EVer I was wondering how bad the unsprung weight
would be with the Aptera. Indications came from a Jay Leno drive
vid
in one the fixed camera showed it to be noticeable to me but not bad.
I'd keep it on smoother roads when possible as I do with my light
EVs.
I'd suggest a good seat, it shouldn't be a problem. Too bad they
went
complicated when the original design with a geared rear motor instead
it would cost much less to build and better handling, more starting
power could be in production.
Jerry Dycus
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:37:54 PM PDT, Josh Landess via EV
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
I hadn't noticed that they were using the hub motors, thanks for
pointing this up. I will be a bit more cautious before I consider
getting one, though I'll still keep open the possibility. On top of
the
other risks they seem to be asking from their pioneer first
customers,
that one seems like a notable one.
On 7/9/2023 5:14 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
Thanks for those informative videos. It still isn't real world
data.
There is a reason nobody is using wheel motors on highway capable
vehicles.
On 7/8/2023 8:51 PM, Ryan Fulcher wrote:
So this?
https://youtu.be/CqPMtEIT3f4
Or this:
https://youtu.be/1alRUqx9UX8
On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 17:46 Alan Arrison via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
I was excited about the Aptera until I saw the hub motors.
I'll pass until I see some real world reliability
demonstrated.
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