Very true. But would you stake your life on it? I work for NASA as an avionics engineer and yes I suppose I'm being pessimistic but the stakes are much bigger here. I doubt they will ever say you are not responsible for a crash.
Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 26, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > > While Peri does have a point, it is extremely pessimistic to say that we will > never get to the "good enough" stage. > > There are some very talented software engineers working on this problem. > Working in a similar fashion to coding for the space program. When you have > enough talented engineers working on a difficult problem, with enough > latitude to fix what needs fixing, you will get the problem solved to the > "good enough" stage. Nothing will ever be perfect, and to try to aim for > perfect on the first try is to doom your product to failure - because you > will never reach the market. > > As an example, remember when Apple tried to outdo Google with their own map > program? Sure, it failed, and in very public ways. However, compare now - > they are quite close in reliability. Voice recognition is another area that > has rapidly improved - when was the last time Siri didn't understand you? > > There is an engineering axiom: "Don't let Perfect be the enemy of the Good". > This is nothing new - Confucius said something similar a long time ago. > > There's another old saying: "Never say never." :) > > Cheers, Peter > > >> On 7/26/16 3:32 PM, damon henry via EV wrote: >> I still say that the majority of American drivers who think they will never >> trust an autonomous vehicle will change their minds as soon as the insurance >> companies offer them $5 less a month on their auto insurance :) >> Damon >> >>> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:15:04 +0000 >>> To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a >>> driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform >>> From: [email protected] >>> >>> The thing is Peri, >>> There are so many possibilities while driving how can one ever test >>> software enough to know >>> that you have covered every likely possibility. Even so, when there is a >>> crash and I am sitting >>> in the backseat letting the vehicle drive who is responsible for the >>> damage, injuries or possible death? >>> Tesla leaves the responsibility on the driver and I'm not sure it will ever >>> move away from that model. >>> >>> >>> From: Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> >>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a >>> driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform >>> I think the big issue will be dealing with the nature of the crashes. >>> While we have plenty of accidents and fatalities with human drivers >>> today, most of the time those humans mitigate the accident by reacting >>> and doing something. That probably helps, even if the result includes a >>> fatality (but some survivors). Putting statistics aside for a moment, >>> consider that you are "helpless" in an autonomous car crash. >>> >>> With autonomous vehicles, I see most failures as being catastrophic. >>> That is, the software will be completely unaware there is a pending >>> crash. Of course, it depends on the details of the situation. >>> Regardless, I think - if enough autonomous car deaths occur - people >>> will fear the prospect of a catastrophic crash more than they fear being >>> involved in a mitigated human-controlled crash. >>> >>> In other words, if you are a safe, alert driver, will you be >>> statistically more likely to die in an autonomous car crash then in one >>> where you are in control - or vice versa? Overall, I'm quite certain the >>> statistics will point to the autonomous car being safer. But maybe not >>> for a small percentage of truly careful drivers. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: 26-Jul-16 10:57:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a >>> driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform >>> >>>> Hi Paul, >>>> No problem - you are free to disagree. >>>> I predict that within 10 years nobody wants to deal with all those >>>> distracted drivers who are trying to drive while also staying in >>>> contact with their family, answering customers and colleagues and >>>> keeping their Facebook status updated. (Almost) everyone will gladly >>>> give the challenges of navigating the road to the self-driving car in >>>> the same way that you hire a driver today to bring you without the >>>> stress and fatigue of driving yourself. >>>> Indeed, there will be accidents and fatalities. But face it - today >>>> there are plenty of those as well without the machines, simply because >>>> humans take a risk. Yesterday I almost crashed because someone decided >>>> that they should try to cross the street coming from behind a van >>>> blocking the view of oncoming traffic. >>>> >>>> Blinded by glaring sunlight? Indeed a cause of many crashes today. >>>> Totally preventable with good sensors. Radar is not bothered by >>>> sunlight. >>>> >>>> I think Tesla and others are onto something good when they see that >>>> long distance transportation and taxi services are where a lot of money >>>> can be found, though I suspect that a long-distance truck will still >>>> have one human on board (compared to two today, where they drive >>>> alternatingly today to keep the vehicle on the road as much as >>>> possible). In future the truck will drive itself while lumbering along >>>> on the freeway while the human sleeps/rests. At source and destination >>>> as well as at (recharge) stops, the human will take over and drive the >>>> truck and do all that is necessary to load/unload. >>>> >>>> But hey, I have been wrong before so, as always: time will tell. >>>> >>>> The fact that many dozens of Google self-driving cars are already on >>>> the road and without much problems, tells me which direction we are >>>> headed. >>>> >>>> Cor van de Water >>>> Chief Scientist >>>> Proxim Wireless >>>> >>>> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >>>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info >>>> >>>> http://www.proxim.com >>>> >>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>>> and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>>> received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. >>>> Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part >>>> of this message is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>>> EV >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:03 AM >>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launchas >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> Cor, >>>> I disagree completely. It is likely we will never have self driving >>>> vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this >>>> is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and >>>> cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. >>>> This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. >>>> One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of >>>> an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece >>>> of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers >>>> door. How are >>>> sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden >>>> downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe >>>> that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t >>>> insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software..... after >>>> all if the cars driving then the cars at fault....... who pays? >>>> >>>> From: Cor van de Water via EV <[email protected]> >>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast >>>> and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled >>>> vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and >>>> difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just >>>> creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. >>>> Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to >>>> low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience >>>> with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is >>>> what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the >>>> freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a >>>> self-driving >>>> vehicle. >>>> >>>> Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the >>>> posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, >>>> well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... >>>> >>>> Cor van de Water >>>> Chief Scientist >>>> Proxim Wireless >>>> >>>> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >>>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info >>>> >>>> http://www.proxim.com >>>> >>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>>> and >>>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>>> received >>>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >>>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >>>> this message is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>>> EV >>>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max >>>> speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale >>>> as far as I know. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/8813642d/attachment.htm> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/3be2c374/attachment.htm> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
