On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 7:29 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Asaf, > > SGTM. I don't have more comments on the proposal. I'll be glad to review > the implementation later :) > > BTW, Apache mailing list doesn't support inline pictures, so you may share > a link to the image? > I've updated the PIP when the comment was originally made to have the updated footer image. https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/989425/224024408-e81ef77f-36b1-4245-9a37-aa04f7cbfe8a.png > > Best, > tison. > > > Asaf Mesika <asaf.mes...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月9日周四 18:10写道： > > > Tison, the rest of the community - any other feedback you'd like to see > > incorporated? > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 4:13 PM Asaf Mesika <asaf.mes...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 3:14 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Asaf, > >>> > >>> Here are my two coins: > >>> > >>> 1. Big +1 on the proposed change to a neutral background. The blue > >>> background makes color coordination quite difficult. > >>> 2. Since we already stick the top menu on scrolling, perhaps we don't > >>> have > >>> to change the footer to duplicate nav items. At least the proposed look > >>> is > >>> quite obsolete to have three blocks in the footer. > >>> > >>> For community links, we have already a community button in the top nav > >>> bar, > >>> and for the ASF footer display, https://kafka.apache.org/ provides a > >>> solution to minimize it. > >>> > >> > >> Thanks for the input, that's actually a good pointOur idea for the > >> footer is something quite common these days and a recognized pattern. > >> The footer is used as a "site map" for the whole website. Right now, on > >> our proposal, it is only a representation of the menu but as we add more > >> content, visitors will always have a place where they can see all the > >> website information architecture (including the social media)See for > >> instance > >> https://www.apple.com > >> The menu is sticky but the footer is much more complete, that is our > goal.We > >> do agree that the second block for the apache website content seems > out of > >> place. > >> So considering your comment, our proposal would be to remove it and use > >> the Apache logo as a link for the Apache pulsar (as kafka does)Here's > >> the proposal > >> > >> [image: image.png] > >> > >> WDYT? > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> tison. > >>> > >>> > >>> Asaf Mesika <asaf.mes...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月1日周三 05:11写道： > >>> > >>> > So far we have 4 people giving feedback: Yu, Dave, Enrico and Kyril. > >>> > > >>> > Anybody else wishes to express their feedback about the content of > the > >>> PIP? > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 3:08 PM Enrico Olivelli <eolive...@gmail.com > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > I am supportive of this idea about the website. > >>> > > I won't enter the details, but I have read the PIP and overall the > >>> > > idea seems good to me > >>> > > > >>> > > Enrico > >>> > > > >>> > > Il giorno ven 24 feb 2023 alle ore 17:37 Asaf Mesika > >>> > > <asaf.mes...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > You are correct - we did start with what content we wanted to > show, > >>> > then > >>> > > > designed it to fit that content. > >>> > > > We are releasing it for discussion, iteration and approval, piece > >>> by > >>> > > piece, > >>> > > > as I said before since it's easier for everyone reviewing it do > it > >>> in > >>> > > small > >>> > > > pieces (just like in code). > >>> > > > > >>> > > > The “Homepage structure” point is defined in the PIP’s scope, so > I > >>> > > thought > >>> > > > > it meant content changing is implied at this step. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > The "homepage structure" is detailed in the PIP and composed of: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > - News banner > >>> > > > - Testimonials > >>> > > > - Menu > >>> > > > - Footer > >>> > > > > >>> > > > As you see it does not mean content changing as this, as we leave > >>> that > >>> > to > >>> > > > future steps. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 4:51 PM Kiryl Valkovich > >>> > > <kiryl_valkovich@teal.tools> > >>> > > > wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Asaf, okay. I see you have some plan. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I’m just a bit confused with the steps ordering. > >>> > > > > Usually, such work starts with “What content do we want to > show?” > >>> > That > >>> > > > > implies content changes. > >>> > > > > Then “How can we display this content in the best way?”. That > >>> implies > >>> > > the > >>> > > > > work on visual design and content adjustment. > >>> > > > > Of course, this order is not mandatory, but it usually allows > to > >>> save > >>> > > time > >>> > > > > on the number of iterations. > >>> > > > > The “Homepage structure” point is defined in the PIP’s scope, > so > >>> I > >>> > > thought > >>> > > > > it meant content changing is implied at this step. > >>> > > > > Waiting for the finished site. :) > >>> > > > > By the way, does someone have any more opinions on the topic? > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > From: Asaf Mesika <asaf.mes...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > > Date: Friday, February 24, 2023 at 3:06 PM > >>> > > > > To: dev@pulsar.apache.org <dev@pulsar.apache.org> > >>> > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] PIP-249: Pulsar website redesign > >>> > > > > I totally agree with your point Kyril, and as I wrote in the > >>> welcome > >>> > > email > >>> > > > > - I want to do all you wrote, but it has to be in bite size > >>> pieces. > >>> > > This > >>> > > > > piece is about theme and general look and feel. We "force" > >>> ourselves, > >>> > > by > >>> > > > > design, to avoid any content change - just like in code in this > >>> > > proposal - > >>> > > > > so people can focus only on the theme change. It's like in code > >>> - you > >>> > > take > >>> > > > > an epic, break it down to stories, and each is broken down to > >>> small > >>> > > PRs. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > So yes, I have a pipeline of content changes: > >>> > > > > * Landing page: > >>> > > > > ** "Tell me about the pulsar community" section - containing > >>> exactly > >>> > > what > >>> > > > > you wanted. We gather great statistics that show the growing > >>> > community > >>> > > in > >>> > > > > nice numbers, which can also feature company names > >>> > > > > ** "Use cases and applications" - so people can know how Pulsar > >>> is > >>> > > used by > >>> > > > > companies (small and big) > >>> > > > > and more. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > * Documentation: > >>> > > > > As you probably know - the documentation itself is an > >>> > encyclopedia, > >>> > > so I > >>> > > > > planned next week a PIP presenting a new structure (super high > >>> level) > >>> > > and > >>> > > > > presenting in detail the first section I'd like to focus on: > >>> > > Quick-start > >>> > > > > Guide. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Each such change will be open for discussion to make it the > best > >>> > > possible > >>> > > > > addition to the site. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I'm happy you liked the look and feel (design) proposed (Emidio > >>> is > >>> > > happy > >>> > > > > too). > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:21 AM Kiryl Valkovich > >>> > > > > <kiryl_valkovich@teal.tools> > >>> > > > > wrote: > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > While I find the proposed visual changes okay, I'm unsure > >>> about the > >>> > > > > > homepage structure. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > I'd add one obvious point to the Goal section that can be > >>> > formulated > >>> > > > > > differently, but eventually is: > >>> > > > > > - **The goal is to get more companies to start using > Pulsar.** > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > In other words, the landing page should **sell** the project > to > >>> > > potential > >>> > > > > > users. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > The defined scope of this PIP includes the "Homepage > structure" > >>> > > point. I > >>> > > > > > will try to express my thoughts on this. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > ## Add "Trusted by" or "Used in production" section > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > One of the best hooks to attract new customers is to show > that > >>> > their > >>> > > > > peers > >>> > > > > > or more prominent players use it. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > This is why I think it's essential to show the list of > >>> companies > >>> > > that use > >>> > > > > > Pulsar as closer to the page top, as possible. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > *Kafka in some form has this info on the first screen* > >>> > > > > > <img width="1276" alt="Screenshot 2023-02-24 at 8 18 35 AM" > >>> src= > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/9302460/221116492-b77cb8e9-eca1-46bd-b457-6889f4e708b6.png > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > *Confluent has it on the second screen* > >>> > > > > > <img width="1423" alt="Screenshot 2023-02-24 at 8 08 06 AM" > >>> src= > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/9302460/221114783-4f22394e-d1fd-4640-8264-3b137f44e2a1.png > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > *StreamNative has it on the second screen* > >>> > > > > > <img width="1425" alt="Screenshot 2023-02-24 at 8 19 35 AM" > >>> src= > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/9302460/221116665-6749212f-749f-4221-b175-07261a6d2ed5.png > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > *Redpanda has it on the second screen* > >>> > > > > > <img width="1391" alt="Screenshot 2023-02-24 at 8 27 40 AM" > >>> src= > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/9302460/221118114-aabaee99-f6ef-4586-b7df-02c5ca3b24a6.png > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > The homepage structure proposed in the PIP doesn't have a > list > >>> of > >>> > the > >>> > > > > > companies on the page itself. Instead, it has a testimonials > >>> list > >>> > at > >>> > > the > >>> > > > > > **bottom** of the page with a link to case-studies. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > ## Too much text on the second screen > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > Users don't like to read long texts on landing pages. They'll > >>> just > >>> > > skip > >>> > > > > it. > >>> > > > > > Show the same or similar text in a bullet-point-like style > >>> would be > >>> > > > > better. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > <img width="838" alt="Screenshot 2023-02-24 at 8 33 50 AM" > src= > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/9302460/221119160-5a39c7c9-ad68-4332-961a-e941f3a76693.png > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > ## The Pulsar Features section > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > Questions the potential user implicitly asks when they scroll > >>> the > >>> > > landing > >>> > > > > > page sound like: > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > 🤔 How can this project help me to solve my pain points? > >>> > > > > > > 🤔 Why should I "buy" this? > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > The answers to this question aren't limited to the technical > >>> > features > >>> > > > > list. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > The current PIP doesn't seem to answer these questions. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > --- > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > ## Alternative page structure proposal > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > 🥑 Here it is: https://pulsar-site-three.vercel.app/ > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > I would be happy to work with the designer if most users > >>> prefer the > >>> > > PIP's > >>> > > > > > visual style. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > My goal is not to compete here "just for fun". My company > >>> works on > >>> > a > >>> > > > > > product for Pulsar users, so I'm in some kind of dependent > on a > >>> > wider > >>> > > > > > Pulsar adoption. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > Thank you. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > From: Yu <li...@apache.org> > >>> > > > > > Date: Friday, February 24, 2023 at 3:55 AM > >>> > > > > > To: dev@pulsar.apache.org <dev@pulsar.apache.org> > >>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] PIP-249: Pulsar website redesign > >>> > > > > > Hi @asafm and @emidio-cardeira thanks for your great work! > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > You've contributed new designs (with colors/elements/... that > >>> have > >>> > > not > >>> > > > > been > >>> > > > > > used) for Pulsar, which is a big step for the community. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > Preiviously we've collected some rules at Pulsar Design Style > >>> Guide > >>> > > [1], > >>> > > > > > which are used to create illustrations in docs. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > If this new look is accepted, can you document the design > >>> > rules/best > >>> > > > > > practice? They should be available in the Contribution Guide > >>> [2]. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > In this way, other contributors can follow and create designs > >>> in > >>> > high > >>> > > > > > quality and consistent style. > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > Thanks! > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > ~~~~~ > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > [1] > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Hp7Sc86MQtL0m8fc2w_TrcKXAuglwRwHmdmwfk00mI/edit#heading=h.b8ogodj5sj > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > [2] https://pulsar.apache.org/contribute/ > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 5:27 AM Asaf Mesika < > >>> asaf.mes...@gmail.com > >>> > > > >>> > > > > wrote: > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Hi, > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > PIP issue: https://github.com/apache/pulsar/issues/19611 > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > One of the key elements that attracted me to Pulsar was how > >>> > > awesome it > >>> > > > > > is - > >>> > > > > > > built in 2012 yet fits the new strategy of being > >>> cloud-native - > >>> > > simply > >>> > > > > > > incredible. It's not only that - it has so many outstanding > >>> > > features, > >>> > > > > > > making it a cutting edge, modern powerhouse in the > messaging > >>> > system > >>> > > > > > > category. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Yet, its site does not reflect that. > >>> > > > > > > It does the opposite. > >>> > > > > > > People new to Pulsar, not knowing it as we do in the > >>> community, > >>> > > would > >>> > > > > > think > >>> > > > > > > it's an old, unmaintained technology, and maybe not even > >>> bother > >>> > > reading > >>> > > > > > the > >>> > > > > > > landing page. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > This is why I embarked on a journey to improve Pulsar > >>> web-site, > >>> > in > >>> > > bite > >>> > > > > > > sizes. My first step was improving the landing page copy > for > >>> the > >>> > > > > elevator > >>> > > > > > > pitch, opening paragraph, and the feature descriptions (In > >>> this > >>> > PR > >>> > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar-site/pull/349>) > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Today, together with my friend, co-worker and designer > >>> Emidio, I > >>> > > would > >>> > > > > > like > >>> > > > > > > to propose the second step: revamp the landing page > >>> structure and > >>> > > most > >>> > > > > > > importantly - the website look and feel. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > The PIP <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/issues/19611> > >>> > contains: > >>> > > > > > > * The screenshots for it > >>> > > > > > > * A "live" Figma view for it > >>> > > > > > > * Detailed explanation of what was changed and why. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > I think you'll love it. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Happy to hear your thoughts. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Asaf Mesika > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >> >
