hi, @Chesnay Schepler <mailto:ches...@apache.org> would you explain
more about what would happen when deprecating Java 8, but still
support it. IMO, if we still generate packages based on Java 8 which
seems to be a consensus, we still can not take the advantages you
mentioned even if we announce that Java 8 support is deprecated.
Best,
Wenlong
On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 17:22, Marios Trivyzas <mat...@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 from me as well on the Java 8 deprecation!
It's important to make the users aware, and "force" them but also the
communities of other
related projects (like the aforementioned Hive) to start preparing
for the
future drop of Java 8
support and the upgrade to the recent stable versions.
On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 11:15 PM Thomas Weise <t...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1 for Java 8 deprecation. It's an important signal for users and we
> need to give sufficient time to adopt. Thanks Chesnay for
starting the
> discussion! Maybe user@ can be included into this discussion?
>
> Thomas
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:49 AM Becket Qin
<becket....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for raising the discussion, Chesnay.
> >
> > I think it is OK to deprecate Java 8 to let the users know
that Java 11
> > migration should be put into the schedule. However, According
to some of
> > the statistics of the Java version adoption[1], a large number
of users
> are
> > still using Java 8 in production. I doubt that Java 8 users
will drop to
> a
> > negligible amount within the next 2 - 3 Flink releases. I
would suggest
> > making the time to drop Java 8 support flexible.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin
> >
> > [1] https://www.infoq.com/news/2021/07/snyk-jvm-2021/
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:09 AM Till Rohrmann
<trohrm...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 for the deprecation and reaching out to the user ML to
ask for
> feedback
> > > from our users. Thanks for driving this Chesnay!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Till
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 10:15 AM Roman Khachatryan
<ro...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The situation is probably a bit different now compared to the
> previous
> > > > upgrade: some users might be using Amazon Coretto (or
other builds)
> > > > which have longer support.
> > > >
> > > > Still +1 for deprecation to trigger migration, and thanks for
> bringing
> > > > this up!
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Roman
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 10:09 AM Arvid Heise
<ar...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 to deprecate Java 8, so we can hopefully incorporate
the module
> > > > concept
> > > > > in Flink.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 9:49 AM Chesnay Schepler <
> ches...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Users can already use APIs from Java 8/11.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 25/11/2021 09:35, Francesco Guardiani wrote:
> > > > > > > +1 with what both Ingo and Matthias sad, personally,
I cannot
> wait
> > > to
> > > > > > start using some of
> > > > > > > the APIs introduced in Java 9. And I'm pretty sure
that's the
> same
> > > > for
> > > > > > our users as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 13:35:07 CET Ingo Bürk
wrote:
> > > > > > >> Hi everyone,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> continued support for Java 8 can also create
project risks,
> e.g.
> > > if
> > > > a
> > > > > > >> vulnerability arises in Flink's dependencies and we
cannot
> upgrade
> > > > them
> > > > > > >> because they no longer support Java 8. Some
projects already
> > > started
> > > > > > >> deprecating support as well, like Kafka, and other
projects
> will
> > > > likely
> > > > > > >> follow.
> > > > > > >> Let's also keep in mind that the proposal here is
not to drop
> > > > support
> > > > > > right
> > > > > > >> away, but to deprecate it, send the message, and
motivate
> users to
> > > > start
> > > > > > >> migrating. Delaying this process could ironically
mean users
> have
> > > > less
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > >> to prepare for it.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ingo
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 8:54 AM Matthias Pohl <
> > > > matth...@ververica.com>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> Thanks for constantly driving these maintenance
topics,
> Chesnay.
> > > +1
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > >>> my
> > > > > > >>> side for deprecating Java 8. I see the point
Jingsong is
> raising.
> > > > But I
> > > > > > >>> agree with what David already said here.
Deprecating the Java
> > > > version
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > >>> tool to make users aware of it (same as starting this
> discussion
> > > > > > thread).
> > > > > > >>> If there's no major opposition against deprecating
it in the
> > > > community
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > >>> should move forward in this regard to make the
users who do
> not
> > > > > > >>> regularly browse the mailing list aware of it.
That said,
> > > > deprecating
> > > > > > Java
> > > > > > >>> 8 in 1.15 does not necessarily mean that it is
dropped in
> 1.16.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Best,
> > > > > > >>> Matthias
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 8:46 AM David Morávek <
> d...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>> Thank you Chesnay for starting the discussion!
This will
> > > generate
> > > > bit
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > >>> a
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> work for some users, but it's a good thing to
keep moving
> the
> > > > project
> > > > > > >>>> forward. Big +1 for this.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Jingsong:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Receiving this signal, the user may be unhappy
because his
> > > > application
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> may be all on Java 8. Upgrading is a big job,
after all,
> many
> > > > systems
> > > > > > >>>>> have not been upgraded yet. (Like you said,
HBase and Hive)
> > > > > > >>>> The whole point of deprecation is to raise
awareness, that
> this
> > > > will
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > >>>> happening eventually and users should take some
steps to
> address
> > > > this
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >>>> medium-term. If I understand Chesnay correctly,
we'd still
> keep
> > > > Java 8
> > > > > > >>>> around for quite some time to give users enough
time to
> upgrade,
> > > > but
> > > > > > >>>> without raising awareness we'd fight the very
same argument
> > > later
> > > > in
> > > > > > >>> time.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> All of the prerequisites from 3rd party projects
for both
> HBase
> > > > [1]
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >>>> Hive [2] to fully support Java 11 have been
completed, so
> the
> > > > ball is
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > >>>> their side and there doesn't seem to be much
activity.
> > > Generating
> > > > bit
> > > > > > >>> more
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> pressure on these efforts might be a good thing.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> It would be great to identify some of these users
and learn
> bit
> > > > more
> > > > > > >>> about
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> their situation. Are they keeping up with latest
Flink
> > > > developments or
> > > > > > >>> are
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> they lagging behind (this would also give them
way more
> time for
> > > > > > >>>> eventual
> > > > > > >>>> upgrade)?
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-22972
> > > > > > >>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HIVE-22415
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Best,
> > > > > > >>>> D.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 3:08 AM Jingsong Li <
> > > > jingsongl...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>> Hi Chesnay,
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks for bringing this for discussion.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> We should dig deeper into the current Java
version of Flink
> > > > users. At
> > > > > > >>>>> least make sure Java 8 is not a mainstream version.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Receiving this signal, the user may be unhappy
because his
> > > > > > application
> > > > > > >>>>> may be all on Java 8. Upgrading is a big job,
after all,
> many
> > > > systems
> > > > > > >>>>> have not been upgraded yet. (Like you said,
HBase and Hive)
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> In my opinion, it is too early to deprecate
support for
> Java 8.
> > > > We
> > > > > > >>>>> should wait for a safer point in time.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 11:45 PM Ingo Bürk <
> i...@ververica.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>> Hi,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> also a +1 from me because of everything Chesnay
already
> said.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Ingo
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 4:41 PM Martijn Visser <
> > > > > > >>> mart...@ververica.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
--
Marios
