I had a second look at the PR and maybe it'd be important to clarify the scope.
It seems to only target the website and, if that's the case, then synchronization might be less of an issue as the core of the website is pretty static. I'm not sure how useful it is to have a translated website without any other kind of support (e.g. mailing list, documentation) in the same language, but the contributor might be able to shed some light on this. Just wanted to amend my original reply as it was pretty blindsided by the previous comments. It'd be worth understanding the end goal of the contribution first. Thanks, Marta On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 2:22 PM Congxian Qiu <qcx978132...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > Thanks for bringing this up, Robert. > > I agree we may need to investigate better translation/synchronization tools > again. > > I'll share some experience when translating the documentation or reviewing > the translation. > 1. Translate documentation using the current procedure needs a lot of > resources to keep the translated version fresh, I'm glad that we have so > many contributors who want to translate the documentation to Chinese. > 2. The documentation may out of sync between the English version and the > translated version, this needs the reviewer to know about Flink and the > English version doc very well(especially when the documentation has been > restructured) > > Best, > Congxian > > > Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> 于2020年6月9日周二 下午6:02写道： > > > I agree with Dawid and others' opinions. > > > > We may not have enough resources to maintain more languages. > > Maybe it's time to investigate better translation/synchronization tools > > again. > > > > I want to share some background about the current translation process. In > > the initial proposal of Chinese translation FLIP-35 [1], > > we have considered Docusaurus/Crowdin as the localization tool, but it > > seems that Crowdin doesn't fit well with Jekyll (Liquid codes). > > But it's been a year and a half, maybe it's time to re-investigate them > or > > other tools. > > > > Here is the list of how other ASF projects are dealing translation of > what > > I know: > > - Apache Pulsar uses Crowdin: > https://github.com/apache/pulsar-translation > > - Apache Kylin: the similar way of Flink: > > https://github.com/apache/kylin/tree/document/website > > - Apache RocketMQ: a separate repository, synchronize manually and > > periodically: https://github.com/apache/rocketmq/tree/master/docs/cn > > > > Here is the list of localization tool of what I know: > > - Docusaurus: https://docusaurus.io/ > > - Crowdin: https://crowdin.com/ > > - GitLocalize: https://gitlocalize.com/ > > > > Best, > > Jark > > > > On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 16:24, Marta Paes Moreira <ma...@ververica.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for bringing this PR to our attention, Robert! > > > > > > Like Dawid and Xintong, I'm concerned that adding a new language will > > make > > > it unbearable to ensure docs synchronization. Best-effort maintenance > of > > > non-english docs may also result in a bad documentation experience for > > > users, and this is something that we should be especially careful about > > in > > > locations where Flink adoption might still be in an early phase, IMO. > At > > > the same time, I understand that having a japanese translation would > > > probably be very helpful for Japanese-speaking users and help with > Flink > > > adoption in Japan. > > > > > > I see this happening for other up-and-coming locations (e.g. > > > Spanish-speaking countries) in the future, so in order to be able to > > accept > > > these contributions I'm also of the opinion that we first need an > > efficient > > > synchronization tool. Maybe it would be worth investigating how other > ASF > > > projects are dealing with this. > > > > > > Marta > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I think Dawid has a good point. With or without another new language, > > > > I'm +1 for trying to have a better tooling/process for synchronizing > > doc > > > > changes. > > > > > > > > Currently, it is not only hard for people who want to modify the > > English > > > > docs, but also for people who try to update the translated copies > > > > accordingly. I'm currently working on updating the Chinese > translations > > > for > > > > the memory configuration documents, and I found it very hard to > > identify > > > > the parts that need updates. The English docs are reorganized, > contents > > > are > > > > moved across pages, and also small pieces of details are modified. It > > is > > > > not always possible for people who work on the English docs to locate > > the > > > > right place in the translations where the updated contents should be > > > > pasted. > > > > > > > > My two cents on the potential approach. We might label the > translation > > > with > > > > the commit id of the original doc where they are in synchronization, > > and > > > > automatically display a warning on the translation if an out-of-sync > is > > > > detected. > > > > > > > > Thank you~ > > > > > > > > Xintong Song > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:30 PM Dawid Wysakowicz < > > dwysakow...@apache.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't have a well defined opinion on adding new language. > However, > > > one > > > > > thing that I'd like to bring up to the attention on that occasion > is > > it > > > > > is already quite cumbersome to update two versions of the docs. > > > > > Especially when we add new sections or change smaller parts of an > > > > > existing document. Right now if I add three sections in an English > > > > > version I have three additional places in the Chinese documents > > where I > > > > > need to paste that. With additional language it doubles, making it > 6 > > > > > places where I have to manually paste the added parts. > > > > > > > > > > I'd be way more welcoming for adding a new language if we had a > > better > > > > > tooling/process for synchronizing changes across different > languages. > > > Or > > > > > if we agree the translations are best effort documents and we do > not > > > > > update them when changing the English documents. > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > Dawid > > > > > > > > > > On 08/06/2020 09:44, Robert Metzger wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > we've received a pull request on flink-web.git for adding a > > Japanese > > > > > > translation of the Flink website: > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pull/346 > > > > > > > > > > > > Before we accept this PR, I believe we should have a discussion > > about > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Relevance*: Looking at Google analytics, our users are coming > from > > > > China > > > > > > (1.), US (2.), India (3.), Germany (4.), Japan (5.). > > > > > > I'd say that is high enough to consider a Japanese translation. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Reviewing*: I'm not aware of any committer who speaks Japanese. > > How > > > > > would > > > > > > we review this? > > > > > > The contributor is offering to open follow-up pull requests, > which > > I > > > > > > believe is fine to bootstrap. Ideally we'll be able to attract > more > > > > > > contributors over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, if we find one or two reviewers, I would give > this a > > > > try. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
