First I want to appreciate Craig, Tim and others who tried to understand what I said instead of just disregarding a simple opinion like mine right away, for some people like me, wording may not be my forte (specially since english is not my native language), but they read it and tried to understand what I tried to express.
I just gave my opinion about the subject and what I think the digital awards, badges, etc mean for me and expose the reason why, not trying to put down anything, not based on any bad personal experience or trauma. As a matter of fact one of the things I thought about when I read the this merits idea is that I saw someone was offered committer access recently and she declined access, rightly so since it does not involve any obligation, but committer access, like Bertrand says is a factual merit, it gives you access to commit code, yet this person declined it because she didn't know how much time would she be able to dedicate to the project, although committer does not obligate you do do anything, she perceived it like so (I am simplifying the case here). This and corporate policies of companies I worked for, which more often than not end up showing a nice signature in emails but practically when you deal with the person mean nothing. Jarek stated his opinion brilliantly in favour of this digital merit, award idea, for me his points are valid, yet what I try to say, if I may..., is I prefer what Bertrand said, what we already have, committer, PMC, secretary, etc are factual and are already set in place, yet digital, vapour merits, in my opinion, could end up being counterproductive. You don't like my opinion? That's perfectly fine. Rich Bowen mentioned an alternative, disregarded instantly. I even liked Daniel Gruno's cheeky idea. Yet you, Mathew, said I was trying to put down the idea down and that I was basing my opinion on some bad personal experience, just to end up saying you didn't understand anything I said by saying "Because it was unintelligible nonsense With all due respect", showing some clear lack of respect just as you disregarded my opinion in the first place for not aligning exactly with yours. I think I can safely say now , I won't take part on this subject any more, and I don't like your attitude and tone one bit, independently of what happens to this idea, which may end up being good for ASF.. or not, yet you seem to be trying to lobby it here instead of promoting healthy debate. El mar, 6 abr 2021 a las 12:40, Matthew Sacks (<matt...@matthewsacks.com>) escribió: > > Because it was unintelligible nonsense. > WADR. > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 4:58 PM Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Matthew, > > > > Your message makes me think you did not get past Daniel's first eight > > words. > > > > If you read the message, he gives a few reasons to dislike badges. > > > > Your snarky response is not a good example of healthy community discussion. > > > > Craig > > > > > On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Matthew Sacks <matt...@matthewsacks.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your input. > > > > > > “I don’t like it” is your only reason? > > > > > > Perhaps we should get rid of the corporate thank you page? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 1:47 PM Daniel Ferradal <dferra...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello, > > >> > > >> In my humble opinion, I don't like labels, medals, awards, bands, > > >> distinctions, badges, ribbons, stars, trophies or anything similar > > >> that distinguish anyone from any other. As I see it, it's a form of > > >> manipulation to persuade people to achieve more than they might want > > >> and may probably lead to people feeling better than others or just the > > >> opposite, which is worse. > > >> > > >> ASF being what it is, all volunteers doing whatever they can or want, > > >> time, life, family or will permits, but a necessary few that work > > >> professionally to maintain operation, I don't like the idea of using > > >> this kind of "corporate encouragement". > > >> > > >> I understand the idea behind this is probably well meant, but that > > >> does not make me like it anyway. > > >> > > >> Cheers. > > >> > > >> El lun, 5 abr 2021 a las 18:06, Matthew Sacks > > >> (<matt...@matthewsacks.com>) escribió: > > >>> > > >>> If I can get a vm as you suggested I’m happy to start a PoC. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:52 AM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 4/5/21 10:46 AM, Matthew Sacks wrote: > > >>>>> So far response has been more yay than nay. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Next steps to turn this into a teak initiative? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Vote? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Podling setup or is this going to be an Infra service? > > >>>> > > >>>> There are, I believe, two possible ways forward here: > > >>>> > > >>>> 1) We request a VM from infra, and someone volunteers to stand this up > > >>>> and maintain it. > > >>>> > > >>>> 2) We persuade Infra that this is a necessary service that they should > > >>>> host for the Foundation. > > >>>> > > >>>> My recommendation would be to go route 1 to start, and then judge, > > >> based > > >>>> on adoption, whether 2 is justified. The problem with 1, of course, is > > >>>> that it requires a volunteer who is willing to move forward with it > > and > > >>>> keep it alive. > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> The https://www.badgr.org looks like a good way to implement, maybe. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 7:25 AM Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> This sounds cool! > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 at 08:20, lidong dai <dailidon...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> wow, I like this idea very much! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Best Regards > > >>>>>>> --------------- > > >>>>>>> DolphinScheduler PMC chair > > >>>>>>> Lidong Dai > > >>>>>>> dailidon...@gmail.com > > >>>>>>> --------------- > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 9:16 PM Matthew Sacks < > > >> matt...@matthewsacks.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Note text: “something like”. I didn’t advocate using NFT’s > > >> themselves. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 5:43 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> AaaaH .. No NFT please :). > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> J. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:30 PM Matthew Sacks < > > >>>>>> matt...@matthewsacks.com> > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Does Badgr have some kind of certification method to validate > > >> the > > >>>>>> badge > > >>>>>>>>>> authenticity? > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I was thinking something like NFT’s for the badge graphic. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 5:26 AM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/5/21 8:19 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I had a similar idea some years back, but with a slightly more > > >>>>>>>>>>>> tongue-in-cheek approach. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Some sample "merits" I had in mind then: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - 1,000 commits within a year > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - 5,000 commits in total > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - 1,000 emails to our lists > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Annoyed Sally more than 5 times > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Caused at least one CVE > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - *Fixed* at least that one CVE... > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, you can see what I'm talking about. It's probably not > > >>>>>> what > > >>>>>>>> many > > >>>>>>>>>>>> people would be wanting... :p (I would tick all the above > > >>>>>> boxes > > >>>>>>>>> btw!) > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> But activity-based merits could be a fun comdev projects. We > > >>>>>> have > > >>>>>>>>>> access > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to the stats through Kibble, so we could auto-generate a bunch > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>>>>>> them. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Elsewhere in the thread I mention https://www.badgr.org/ which > > >>>>>> has a > > >>>>>>>>>>> small advantage that it already exists and has an active > > >>>>>> developer > > >>>>>>>>>>> community. I wonder what ability there is to feed data from > > >>>>>> Kibble > > >>>>>>>> into > > >>>>>>>>>>> Badgr. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> And I think I qualify for the "Annoyed Sally" badge a *bunch* > > >> of > > >>>>>>>> times > > >>>>>>>>>>> over. :D > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> --Rich > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/04/2021 14.10, Jarek Potiuk wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's very similar to what has already been done at the > > >>>>>> ApacheCon > > >>>>>>>>> every > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> year. you got the "badges" that you could attach to your > > >>>>>> generic > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "conference badge". > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/wusheng1108/status/1171101885664595968 > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> J. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 1:43 PM Liu Ted > > >>>>>> <tedl...@yahoo.com.invalid > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like this idea. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ted Liu > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 在 2021 年 4月 月 5 日週一，時間：16:42 ， Matthew Sacks > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <matt...@matthewsacks.com> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 寫道： Summary: Digital Merit badges > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASF participation and responsibility are based on merit. So > > >>>>>> like > > >>>>>>>>>> other > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> merit-based organizations, why not have a digital merit > > >>>>>> badge. It > > >>>>>>>>>> would > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> slow your name and summarize your involvement and > > >>>>>> contributions > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (volunteer, > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> committer, member, board member, founding member, etc.). > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, what projects you work on. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other examples of design: Trust Certification badges: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > https://trustarc.com/truste-certifications/enterprise-privacy-certification/ > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What it’s not: social score, that’s not what I’m proposing. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If an ASF member, committee, and volunteer involvement are > > >>>>>> based > > >>>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> merit, > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> why not have a digital merit badge that shows what they’ve > > >>>>>> done? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like other organizations based on merit, there are usually > > >>>>>> badges > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> recognizing one's contributions to that contributor. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m thinking to list the following on the badge: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - committer, member, volunteer, board member, founder, etc > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - year joined > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you click the badge, it will take you to a profile page > > >>>>>> with: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Projects they contribute/contributed to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Apachcon participation, presentations, etc > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Apache.org personal homepage (if they have one) > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a marketing perspective, it also expands the ASF > > >>>>>> “brand” > > >>>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reputation. You have many of the best software engineers and > > >>>>>> IT > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> professionals in the world helping make better software > > >>>>>> available > > >>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial companies as well as public organizations and > > >>>>>>>>> individuals > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If LinkedIn displayed a dynamically generated badge > > >>>>>> validated by > > >>>>>>>> an > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASF-hosted infra API (blockchain validated) on Roy Fielding > > >>>>>> or > > >>>>>>>>>> JimJag’s > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn page, for example, wouldn’t that be of interest in > > >>>>>>>>> expanding > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASF > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach? It could increase volunteering, donations, page > > >>>>>> views, and > > >>>>>>>>>> more > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not just LinkedIn, but maybe RedHat, Microsoft, maybe Apple > > >>>>>>>>> (probably > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not), > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oracle, IBM, AWS, Google could get a Platinum sponsor badge > > >>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>> show > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pride for supporting the ASF as a major corporation. More > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> corporations will > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow suit. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Matthew > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > >> dev-h...@community.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com > > >>>>>>>>>>> @rbowen > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Matthew > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>> +48 660 796 129 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Thank you, Matthew > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>> Thank you, Matthew > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Rich Bowen > > >>>> rbo...@rcbowen.com > > >>>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Thank you, Matthew > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Daniel Ferradal > > >> HTTPD Project > > >> #httpd help at Freenode > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > >> > > >> -- > > > Thank you, Matthew > > > > Craig L Russell > > c...@apache.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > -- > Thank you, Matthew -- Daniel Ferradal HTTPD Project #httpd help at Freenode --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
