+1 Ted. While I have never personally felt the need to issue a veto regarding a personnel promotion, I have seen others use it, and have on balance agreed with those decisions, including for the exact situation I mentioned.
Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 4, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Niclas, > > I never presented an argument in favor of *using* a veto. I presented an > argument in favor of *having* a veto to potentially use. > > The possibility of a veto encourages consensus building before the decision > is recorded. > > I personally think that vetoes should almost never happen because any > veto-worthy issue is brought out and resolved in discussion ahead of time. > > >> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Niclas Hedhman <hedh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> But Ted, how does the minority regain the "minority's voice heard" simply >> by veto of new members? If they place unreasonable vetoes and hope that >> over time the majority will "evaporate" seems unproductive as well. >> >> Vetoes can become very contentious, and I don't really buy the arguments >> presented in favor of using it. To me a negative use is a BDFL-type >> leader/founder preventing active contributors from getting a say in a >> project. >> >> The raised problem of community disharmony is not served with vetoes, >> AFAICT. >> >> >> >> On Apr 4, 2017 14:06, "Ted Dunning" <ted.dunn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I hear it as the voice of (occasionally bitter) experience. >> >> It could easily be my own voice as well. I have found in my own limited >> experience that communities who pay attention to minority voices to be far >> better at producing real consensus. I have also found that people with a >> majority-rules opinion often change their opinion to minority-must-be-heard >> when they are no longer in the majority. That matches what Joe said pretty >> closely. >> >> His phrasing might not be what I would use, but his experience seems to >> match mine quite closely. >> >> I also really don't see how a valid statement of long experience is FUD. I >> certainly see a healthy dose of FUD in my day job from competitors and >> Joe's statement is pretty different. >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> That borders on FUD. >>> >>> Op di 4 apr. 2017 om 05:03 schreef Joseph Schaefer >>> <joe_schae...@yahoo.com.invalid> >>> >>>> Trust me niclas, you would be singing a very different tune if you >>>> believed something like that were happening in a project you were >> working >>>> on and you were a member of the minority powerless to put a halt to it. >>> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
