Of course, as a customer there might be specific feature that I'd really want to get released as planned. And well, I'm not saying it's not possible to be flexible with a date or two in specific cases. I'm a bit more worried that postponing becomes the norm, e.g. that all future versions always get delayed, which in turn delays the next version. Before you know it you're down to three releases per year.
As a customer, and service provider, having a bug free and stable environment is more important than having the hottest new features out there. Of course they're always welcome, but if I have to choose between 'über feature X but 2 months delayed' and 'fixes that critical bug you have on time' I'll take the latter one any day. And before anyway says it, we could of course roll our own versions, and just use the latest RC, but that'd be problematic for support contracts. Erik On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Mike Tutkowski < mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com> wrote: > Personally I'm not at much risk of missing a deadline if it's still two > weeks out. I was thinking more along the lines that others - who have been > hard at work on 4.3 RC testing, as well - might miss their deadlines. > > I can see your point of view, Erik. In my case, it's the opposite: > customers would rather have feature X from SolidFire sooner rather than > wait another 1/3 of a year. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Erik Weber <terbol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > As a customer of several companies involved with cloudstack i must say > that > > having a reliable time schedule is more important than having feature X. > > We've been waiting for 4.3 since we discovered a bug that got fixed in > 4.3 > > but not in 4.2 branch and rendered us unable to use that version. > > > > If 4.3 had held it's schedule we would've been rolling almost one month > > ago, instead we are still wasting time waiting for a supported version. > > > > If 4.4 now were to be postponed and an important bug appears in 4.3 with > a > > fix in 4.4 it would have me thinking about moving to other solutions if i > > know that it'll be 5-6 months before release. > > > > Erik > > 27. feb. 2014 20:57 skrev "Mike Tutkowski" < > mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com> > > følgende: > > > > > I'm not sure I would say that not moving the feature-freeze date is a > > > penalty, but it does have consequences for customers...as does the fact > > > that we miss our release deadlines consistently. > > > > > > If you are working on a feature that hasn't been advertised to your > > > customers via a roadmap or some other mechanism, then it doesn't really > > > matter, I suppose, if you release that feature today or, say, four > months > > > from now when the next release comes out. > > > > > > However, many of us work under the direction of a roadmap that has been > > > made visible to our customers. In such an environment, these customers > do > > > expect when you tell them feature X will be out in, say, 4.3 that it > > does, > > > in fact, come out in 4.3 and not four months later in 4.4. > > > > > > I just wanted to point this out because I've seen in several e-mails > over > > > the past year the following idea: If a feature doesn't make it into > this > > > release, no big deal - it can be put in the next release. > > > > > > While technically true, this does not take into consideration customer > > > expectations around feature-release dates. > > > > > > Personally, I'd rather push a feature-freeze date back by a couple > weeks > > > than make customers (of mine or anyone else's) wait another 1/3 of a > year > > > or more for the feature(s) in question. > > > > > > At some point, however, we need to conduct a retrospective to uncover > why > > > we are not hitting our deadlines. Perhaps the deadlines are too tight? > > > Perhaps there is a process issue missing (or in place) that prevents us > > > from doing so? etc. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:21 PM, John Kinsella <j...@stratosec.co> > wrote: > > > > > > > I don't see not moving the freeze date as a penalty. If a feature > > > doesn't > > > > make the current deadline, it moves to the next release, which is > > still a > > > > few months away. For significant issues, it's not uncommon for us to > > > allow > > > > them in late. > > > > > > > > What we have a stronger need for than shifting a date, by several > > orders > > > > of magnitude, is understanding why the RC process took so long and > what > > > we > > > > can do in the future to make that not so painful. > > > > > > > > For the record I'm +0 on moving the feature freeze date. > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Ram Ganesh <ram.gan...@citrix.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I share it too. Many developers in the community went out of their > > way > > > > to get a cleaner RC and thereby impacting their feature development > > > > efforts. We shouldn't be penalizing them with this 2 week's feature > > > freeze > > > > schedule > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > RamG > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] > > > > >> Sent: 27 February 2014 03:00 > > > > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > > >> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > > >> > > > > >> Mike I share your opinion most of us have been pretty much on 4.3 > > > until > > > > >> now, and pushing out the release seems reasonable. As I called out > > in > > > > earlier > > > > >> mail the feature proposal date was not called out for 4.4 and as > > such > > > > giving > > > > >> little extra room seems reasonable. > > > > >> > > > > >> Animesh > > > > >> > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:29 AM > > > > >>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > > >>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I think we're having this discussion after every release because > > > we're > > > > >>> beginning to realize that a four-month release cycle has not been > > > very > > > > >>> realistic for us yet. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The main issue I encounter is our month-long RC cycle where I > > spend a > > > > >>> bunch of time validating the RC and (during that timeframe) less > > time > > > > >>> developing for the next release as I had initially planned. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Perhaps instead of extending the cycle we could consider ways to > > > > >>> actually meet the schedule on a consistent basis. That would be > > fine, > > > > as > > > > >> well. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Hugo Trippaers < > h...@trippaers.nl > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> -1 on postponing the feature freeze. We are having this > discussion > > > > >>>> after every release, however we agreed to do a 4 month cycle so > > > > >>>> let's stick > > > > >>> to it. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> If there are important features that are currently being > developed > > > > >>>> but might not make this cut-off date we should discuss that > > > > >>>> separately, but as a point of principle lets stick to the > release > > > > schedule as > > > > >> proposed. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Cheers, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hugo > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On 26 feb. 2014, at 15:23, Tracy Phillips > > > > >>>> <tracy.phill...@weberize.com> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> +1 to Daan. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Tracy Phillips > > > > >>>>> Weberize, Inc. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Daan Hoogland > > > > >>>>> <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -1 for postponing the feature freeze. It will amount to more > > > > >>>>>> features in the release. I'd rather shorten the cycle and do > > more > > > > >>>>>> releases then to pack more bugs in a single go. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Guo Star < > ghxand...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> +1 > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> 2014-02-26 20:01 GMT+08:00 Abhinandan Prateek < > > > > >>>>>> abhinandan.prat...@citrix.com > > > > >>>>>>>> : > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> +1 for 4.4 feature freeze on 3/28. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> On 26/02/14 10:01 am, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi" > > > > >>>>>>>> <sateesh.chodapune...@citrix.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > ] > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 February 2014 04:46 > > > > >>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is a good idea, Animesh (to push out feature > > > > >>>>>>>>>> freeze to 3/28). > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> +1 to move 4.4 feature freeze date to 3/28. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > > > > >>>>>>>>> Sateesh > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree we should discuss 4+ month development cycles > > > > >> again. > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi < > > > > >>>>>>>>>> animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I will start a separate discussion on 4 month cycle or > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> longer, but wanted to call out one more important date. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> We have a last day for feature proposal date which is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> typically a month before feature freeze date. If > following > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 schedule + 4 > > > > >>>>>> month > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it would have been 2/14 and we are already past that. > Since > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it was > > > > >>>>>> not > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> announced for > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.4 release yet my suggestion would be to keep feature > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal > > > > >>>>>> open > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for another week and push all the dates out by 2 weeks > to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> give > > > > >>>>>> folks > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to finish up their features for new proposals > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that are > > > > >>>>>> yet > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to come out. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To be clear that would mean pushing out feature freeze to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/28 from > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/14 and all the other dates likewise. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Animesh > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Animesh Chaturvedi > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 1:05 PM > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> With the experience of 4.2 and 4.3 I think we should > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss if > > > > >>>>>> we > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> can realistically achieve 4 month cycle our RCs take 2 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> months. I > > > > >>>>>> was > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> going to open up the discussion after 4.3 is shipped > > though. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Trippie [mailto:trip...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > > Hugo > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trippaers > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:50 AM > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If we stick to our 4 month release schedule the feature > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze > > > > >>>>>> is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> four months after the feature freeze of 4.3. The > feature > > > > >>>>>> freeze of > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 was > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 8 Nov > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So the proposed release schedule for 4.4 would look > like > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this (dates slightly modified to take efficiency and > RM's > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> personal > > > > >>>>>> life > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> into > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> account ;-) ): > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature Freeze: March 14, 2014 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Testing/Bug Fixes: March 15, 2014 till > > > April > > > > >>>>>> 18, > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2014 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (direct access for committers) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stability Fixes only: April 19, > > 2014 > > > > till > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> release (cherry picks > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by RM only) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> First RC: May 9, 2014 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optimistic Release Date: May 19, 2014 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 feb. 2014, at 16:35, Sudha Ponnaganti > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sudha.ponnaga...@citrix.com> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also looking for feature freeze dates for 4.4. > Can > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RM > > > > >>>>>> post > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> those? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sudha > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alex Hitchins [mailto: > alex.hitch...@shapeblue.com > > ] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:00 AM > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: 4.4 Feature Freeze > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the 4.3 isn't quite out the door yet, but is > > there > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a timetable > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere stating when the feature freeze for 4.4 will > > be? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to submit a feature and want to ensure > that > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's prepared in > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Hitchins > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP Software Engineering > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 20 3603 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0540<tel:+442036030540> > > > > >>>>>> | > > > > >>>>>>>>>> M: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +44<tel:+447968161581> 7788 423 969 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ShapeBlue Ltd, 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, > London, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WC2N > > > > >>>>>> 4HS > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need Enterprise Grade Support for Apache CloudStack? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our CloudStack Infrastructure > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure-support/> offers the best 24/7 SLA for > > > > >>>>>> CloudStack > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Environments. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache CloudStack Bootcamp training courses > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> **NEW!** CloudStack 4.2.1 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> training/> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18th-19th February 2014, Brazil. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Classroom<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17th-23rd March 2014, Region A. 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ShapeBlue is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> registered trademark. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski* > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > > > > >>>>>>>>>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302 > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world uses the > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *(tm)* > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> Daan > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> -- > > > > >>> *Mike Tutkowski* > > > > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > > > > >>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > > > > >>> o: 303.746.7302 > > > > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the > > > > >>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > > > > >>> *(tm)* > > > > > > > > Stratosec - Compliance as a Service > > > > o: 415.315.9385 > > > > @johnlkinsella > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *Mike Tutkowski* > > > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > > > e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > > > o: 303.746.7302 > > > Advancing the way the world uses the > > > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > > > *(tm)* > > > > > > > > > -- > *Mike Tutkowski* > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* > e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com > o: 303.746.7302 > Advancing the way the world uses the > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> > *(tm)* >
