I don't agree, we don't *have* to be flexible wih our dates. We *can* also be flexible with our release contents and number of releases. The main point to not let slip is; we *must* be strict on quality.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Ram Ganesh <ram.gan...@citrix.com> wrote: > Yes. I can only agree with you on this. When we come up with dates we have > to be cognizant about slips in prior releases (we had 6 RC re-spins and > counting....) which would have had impact which is the case now. We have to > be bit flexible with our dates. > > Thanks, > RamG > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] >> Sent: 28 February 2014 01:27 >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> >> I'm not sure I would say that not moving the feature-freeze date is a >> penalty, >> but it does have consequences for customers...as does the fact that we miss >> our release deadlines consistently. >> >> If you are working on a feature that hasn't been advertised to your >> customers via a roadmap or some other mechanism, then it doesn't really >> matter, I suppose, if you release that feature today or, say, four months >> from now when the next release comes out. >> >> However, many of us work under the direction of a roadmap that has been >> made visible to our customers. In such an environment, these customers do >> expect when you tell them feature X will be out in, say, 4.3 that it does, in >> fact, come out in 4.3 and not four months later in 4.4. >> >> I just wanted to point this out because I've seen in several e-mails over the >> past year the following idea: If a feature doesn't make it into this >> release, no >> big deal - it can be put in the next release. >> >> While technically true, this does not take into consideration customer >> expectations around feature-release dates. >> >> Personally, I'd rather push a feature-freeze date back by a couple weeks >> than make customers (of mine or anyone else's) wait another 1/3 of a year or >> more for the feature(s) in question. >> >> At some point, however, we need to conduct a retrospective to uncover why >> we are not hitting our deadlines. Perhaps the deadlines are too tight? >> Perhaps there is a process issue missing (or in place) that prevents us from >> doing so? etc. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:21 PM, John Kinsella <j...@stratosec.co> wrote: >> >> > I don't see not moving the freeze date as a penalty. If a feature >> > doesn't make the current deadline, it moves to the next release, which >> > is still a few months away. For significant issues, it's not uncommon >> > for us to allow them in late. >> > >> > What we have a stronger need for than shifting a date, by several >> > orders of magnitude, is understanding why the RC process took so long >> > and what we can do in the future to make that not so painful. >> > >> > For the record I'm +0 on moving the feature freeze date. >> > >> > John >> > >> > On Feb 26, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Ram Ganesh <ram.gan...@citrix.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > I share it too. Many developers in the community went out of their >> > > way >> > to get a cleaner RC and thereby impacting their feature development >> > efforts. We shouldn't be penalizing them with this 2 week's feature >> > freeze schedule >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > RamG >> > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] >> > >> Sent: 27 February 2014 03:00 >> > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > >> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> > >> >> > >> Mike I share your opinion most of us have been pretty much on 4.3 >> > >> until now, and pushing out the release seems reasonable. As I >> > >> called out in >> > earlier >> > >> mail the feature proposal date was not called out for 4.4 and as >> > >> such >> > giving >> > >> little extra room seems reasonable. >> > >> >> > >> Animesh >> > >> >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] >> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:29 AM >> > >>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > >>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> > >>> >> > >>> I think we're having this discussion after every release because >> > >>> we're beginning to realize that a four-month release cycle has not >> > >>> been very realistic for us yet. >> > >>> >> > >>> The main issue I encounter is our month-long RC cycle where I >> > >>> spend a bunch of time validating the RC and (during that >> > >>> timeframe) less time developing for the next release as I had initially >> planned. >> > >>> >> > >>> Perhaps instead of extending the cycle we could consider ways to >> > >>> actually meet the schedule on a consistent basis. That would be >> > >>> fine, >> > as >> > >> well. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Hugo Trippaers >> > >>> <h...@trippaers.nl> >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> -1 on postponing the feature freeze. We are having this >> > >>>> discussion after every release, however we agreed to do a 4 month >> > >>>> cycle so let's stick >> > >>> to it. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> If there are important features that are currently being >> > >>>> developed but might not make this cut-off date we should discuss >> > >>>> that separately, but as a point of principle lets stick to the >> > >>>> release >> > schedule as >> > >> proposed. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Cheers, >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Hugo >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> On 26 feb. 2014, at 15:23, Tracy Phillips >> > >>>> <tracy.phill...@weberize.com> >> > >>>> wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>>> +1 to Daan. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Tracy Phillips >> > >>>>> Weberize, Inc. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Daan Hoogland >> > >>>>> <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com >> > >>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> -1 for postponing the feature freeze. It will amount to more >> > >>>>>> features in the release. I'd rather shorten the cycle and do >> > >>>>>> more releases then to pack more bugs in a single go. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Guo Star >> <ghxand...@gmail.com> >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>>>>>> +1 >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> 2014-02-26 20:01 GMT+08:00 Abhinandan Prateek < >> > >>>>>> abhinandan.prat...@citrix.com >> > >>>>>>>> : >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> +1 for 4.4 feature freeze on 3/28. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> On 26/02/14 10:01 am, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi" >> > >>>>>>>> <sateesh.chodapune...@citrix.com> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>>>>>>>>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com] >> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: 26 February 2014 04:46 >> > >>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I think this is a good idea, Animesh (to push out feature >> > >>>>>>>>>> freeze to 3/28). >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> +1 to move 4.4 feature freeze date to 3/28. >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, >> > >>>>>>>>> Sateesh >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree we should discuss 4+ month development cycles >> > >> again. >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi < >> > >>>>>>>>>> animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I will start a separate discussion on 4 month cycle or >> > >>>>>>>>>>> longer, but wanted to call out one more important date. >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> We have a last day for feature proposal date which is >> > >>>>>>>>>>> typically a month before feature freeze date. If following >> > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 schedule + 4 >> > >>>>>> month >> > >>>>>>>>>>> it would have been 2/14 and we are already past that. >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Since it was >> > >>>>>> not >> > >>>>>>>>>>> announced for >> > >>>>>>>>>>> 4.4 release yet my suggestion would be to keep feature >> > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal >> > >>>>>> open >> > >>>>>>>>>>> for another week and push all the dates out by 2 weeks to >> > >>>>>>>>>>> give >> > >>>>>> folks >> > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to finish up their features for new proposals >> > >>>>>>>>>>> that are >> > >>>>>> yet >> > >>>>>>>>>>> to come out. >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> To be clear that would mean pushing out feature freeze to >> > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/28 from >> > >>>>>>>>>>> 3/14 and all the other dates likewise. >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Animesh >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Animesh Chaturvedi >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com] >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 1:05 PM >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> With the experience of 4.2 and 4.3 I think we should >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss if >> > >>>>>> we >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> can realistically achieve 4 month cycle our RCs take 2 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> months. I >> > >>>>>> was >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> going to open up the discussion after 4.3 is shipped >> though. >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Trippie [mailto:trip...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo Trippaers >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:50 AM >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If we stick to our 4 month release schedule the feature >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> freeze >> > >>>>>> is >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> four months after the feature freeze of 4.3. The feature >> > >>>>>> freeze of >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.3 was >> > >>>>>>>>>>> 8 Nov >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013. >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So the proposed release schedule for 4.4 would look like >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this (dates slightly modified to take efficiency and >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> RM's personal >> > >>>>>> life >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> into >> > >>>>>>>>>>> account ;-) ): >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature Freeze: March 14, 2014 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Testing/Bug Fixes: March 15, 2014 till April >> > >>>>>> 18, >> > >>>>>>>>>> 2014 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (direct access for committers) >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stability Fixes only: April 19, 2014 >> > till >> > >>>>>>>>>>> release (cherry picks >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by RM only) >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> First RC: May 9, 2014 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optimistic Release Date: May 19, 2014 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugo >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 feb. 2014, at 16:35, Sudha Ponnaganti >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sudha.ponnaga...@citrix.com> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also looking for feature freeze dates for 4.4. Can >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RM >> > >>>>>> post >> > >>>>>>>>>>> those? >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sudha >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alex Hitchins >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:alex.hitch...@shapeblue.com] >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:00 AM >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: 4.4 Feature Freeze >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the 4.3 isn't quite out the door yet, but is >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there a timetable >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere stating when the feature freeze for 4.4 will >> be? >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to submit a feature and want to ensure >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that It's prepared in >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time. >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Hitchins >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP Software Engineering >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D: +44 1892 523 587 | S: +44 20 3603 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0540<tel:+442036030540> >> > >>>>>> | >> > >>>>>>>>>> M: >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +44<tel:+447968161581> 7788 423 969 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ShapeBlue Ltd, 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, >> London, >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WC2N >> > >>>>>> 4HS >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need Enterprise Grade Support for Apache CloudStack? >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our CloudStack Infrastructure >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure-support/> offers the best 24/7 SLA for >> > >>>>>> CloudStack >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Environments. >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache CloudStack Bootcamp training courses >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> **NEW!** CloudStack 4.2.1 >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> training<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack- >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> training/> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18th-19th February 2014, Brazil. >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Classroom<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17th-23rd March 2014, Region A. 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ShapeBlue is >> > >>>>>>>>>>> a >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> registered trademark. >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> -- >> > >>>>>>>>>> *Mike Tutkowski* >> > >>>>>>>>>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* >> > >>>>>>>>>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com >> > >>>>>>>>>> o: 303.746.7302 >> > >>>>>>>>>> Advancing the way the world uses the >> > >>>>>>>>>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> >> > >>>>>>>>>> *(tm)* >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> -- >> > >>>>>> Daan >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> *Mike Tutkowski* >> > >>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* >> > >>> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com >> > >>> o: 303.746.7302 >> > >>> Advancing the way the world uses the >> > >>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> >> > >>> *(tm)* >> > >> > Stratosec - Compliance as a Service >> > o: 415.315.9385 >> > @johnlkinsella >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> *Mike Tutkowski* >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.* >> e: mike.tutkow...@solidfire.com >> o: 303.746.7302 >> Advancing the way the world uses the >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play> >> *(tm)* -- Daan
