It looks like https://discuss.python.org/t/requires-python-upper-limits/12663 - it is indeed a widely adopted practice to not upper-bind python-requires at all. So neither ~=3.10, nor >=3.10,<4 but `>=3.10` seems to be the **right** approach. And I am advocating now for changing the warning message (and trigger - to also warn when < is used for python-requires) to stay and to ask to remove the upper-binding (at least until Python 4 is even considered at all).
I raised another PR for that https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/52980 in anticipation that this will be our "preferred python-requires". J. On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:14 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > Makes sense. Maybe we should then mention that in the > https://github.com/astral-sh/uv/issues/14422 ? I do not want to "spoil" > relationship with Astral, and while I strongly believe that they should not > make such decisions unilaterally and forcing people to change their > choices, having a `pip` maintainer saying that this is a good idea, and > even pointing that ~3.10 should really be replaced by >=3.10 and that it > makes little sense to use ~3.10, is turning that into a "community > decision" - and I will be more than happy to simply follow it. > > J. > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:08 PM Tzu-ping Chung <t...@astronomer.io.invalid> > wrote: > >> You don’t find anyone actively saying it’s bad, but you also would not >> find anyone recommending it with a good reason. With Python’s versioning >> scheme, having <4 makes as much sense as (random example) <3.10. >> >> I believe the trend was started by Poetry having all version range >> specifications to use ^ by default when you do “poetry add.” It’s a >> reasonable default across the board, but unless you’re using a similar >> automated tool, adding an upper cap to the supported Python version is >> cargo cult. Extra characters without any reasoning behind them. >> >> -- >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 7 Jul 2025, at 13:39, Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Note that while, as mentioned, ~= is a standard and well-supported >> > operator, it is generally NOT RECOMMENDED to be used for Python version >> > specification. It is also not recommended to use the equivalent >> expression >> > composed with >= and <. >> > >> > Interesting - could you point where it is specified that it is not >> > recommended ? (Not that I am complaining, I understand that Python does >> > not follow SemVer, but I look hard and have not found any place where >> > anyone would say it's not recommended - that was the first time I hear >> it, >> > but If I know that Python Packaging actually made that recommendation, I >> > would be more than happy to just switch and not make any fuss about it. >> > >> >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 1:12 PM Tzu-ping Chung <t...@astronomer.io.invalid >> > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Note that while, as mentioned, ~= is a standard and well-supported >> >> operator, it is generally NOT RECOMMENDED to be used for Python version >> >> specification. It is also not recommended to use the equivalent >> expression >> >> composed with >= and <. >> >> >> >> Python does not use semantic versioning, and backward incompatible >> changes >> >> are made in x.y releases (e.g. 3.10 can contain incompatibilities to >> 3.9). >> >> Setting <4 (or any single-segment version) is therefore arbitrary and >> >> divorced of any practicality. >> >> >> >> I would highly suggest Airflow to simply change ~= to a simple >= >> without >> >> an upper limit. >> >> >> >> TP >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>>> On 7 Jul 2025, at 12:22, Amogh Desai <amoghdesai....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Thanks Jarek. >> >>> >> >>> I do not have a strong objection to either form. Both the ways are >> >>> functionally the same and valid per PEP 440. >> >>> >> >>> If I had to slightly lean one way, I’d prefer ~=3.10 for its brevity >> and >> >>> simplicity. That said, I would also understand why >> >>> some might prefer the more explicit >=3.10,<4, especially in a big >> >> project >> >>> like ours where there are lot of newcomers >> >>> coming in all the time. >> >>> >> >>> I am ok to go with whatever the community prefers here. I am more >> >>> interested in consistency in one way or another. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks & Regards, >> >>> Amogh Desai >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:22 PM Pavankumar Gopidesu < >> >> gopidesupa...@gmail.com> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks Jarek, >> >>>> >> >>>> I am just catching up with this discussion. I agree that this is >> >>>> unilaterally forcing us to make changes, though the one (~=3.10) is >> also >> >>>> the standard one we have been using. >> >>>> >> >>>> I am in favour of using our existing convention ~=3.10. >> >>>> >> >>>> Pavan >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 10:12 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hello here, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If you have not noticed - we have a little bit of drama because in >> the >> >>>>> latest `uv` version, Astral unilaterally decided to make the >> `~=3.10` >> >>>>> de-facto invalid specification. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The `~=3.10` is a perfectly valid specification widely recognized >> as >> >>>>> `>=3.10,<4` and specified like that (named "Compatible Release") in >> >>>>> https://peps.python.org/pep-0440/#compatible-release and even if >> the >> >>>>> wording in the PEP is slightly ambiguous for the semantics of it - >> it >> >> is >> >>>>> widely recognized, quite heavily used and all Python tooling >> properly >> >>>>> interpret it in the way described above. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Yet the Astral team decided - unilaterally, that this is an >> ambiguous >> >> and >> >>>>> misleading specification and started issuing a warning about it. >> >>>> Initially, >> >>>>> the warning was pretty mysterious for workspace, because it did not >> >> tell >> >>>>> which pyproject.toml it came from (we had it in all providers and >> >>>> breeze) - >> >>>>> so after they implemented a fix, this turned into about a 100 >> >>>> unsilenceable >> >>>>> warnings every time you run `uv sync`. This happened after I >> complained >> >>>>> about this in the PR and proposed that there should be both - better >> >>>>> message and a way to silence the warning for maintainers that they >> know >> >>>>> what they are doing) - yet uv 7.9.19 just made the situation worse >> by >> >>>>> ballooning the number of warnings and still not allowing to silence >> it. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> We are still waiting on a decision what Astral team will do in >> >>>>> https://github.com/astral-sh/uv/issues/14422, Unfortunately there >> is >> >> no >> >>>>> community to make decisions there - this is a unilateral decision of >> >>>> Astral >> >>>>> team what they do, even if ~=3.10 is perfectly valid and recognized >> >>>>> specification, that IMHO is not up to Astral team to make people >> change >> >>>>> their way. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> So for now we are literally being forced by Astral to change the >> way we >> >>>>> declare python compatibility - PR is here >> >>>>> https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/52967 . The way how `uv` >> >> workflow >> >>>>> works makes it impossible to keep `~=3.10` - because every time you >> run >> >>>> `uv >> >>>>> sync` - in our case literally several times a day you have 1.5 >> pages of >> >>>>> warnings in your terminal. So it's not a "recommendation" - we are >> >> forced >> >>>>> to change it. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I do not particularly like being forced like that - for the "PEP >> >>>> compliant" >> >>>>> and "standard" feature by the Astral team - but for now I created >> the >> >>>>> temporary fix - and hopefully the decision will be reversed and we >> will >> >>>> be >> >>>>> able to silence the warning - if we choose to do so. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Speaking of which: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Assuming that we have a choice (we do not have it now) - what would >> be >> >>>> your >> >>>>> preference: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> * Should we continue using ~3.10 ? >> >>>>> * Or should we switch to >=3.10,<4 ? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I'd love to hear - regardless of the forceful change now - what is >> the >> >>>>> preference of the community members. I have no "strong" >> preferences, I >> >>>>> slightly prefer the `~3.10` as it is more concise. But I know others >> >>>> might >> >>>>> have a different preference. And assuming that the Astral team will >> >> stop >> >>>>> forcing us to "voluntarily choose" the latter, I would love that our >> >>>>> community makes that choice on their own. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> What do you prefer? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> J. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@airflow.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@airflow.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@airflow.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@airflow.apache.org >> >>
