Makes sense. Maybe we should then mention that in the https://github.com/astral-sh/uv/issues/14422 ? I do not want to "spoil" relationship with Astral, and while I strongly believe that they should not make such decisions unilaterally and forcing people to change their choices, having a `pip` maintainer saying that this is a good idea, and even pointing that ~3.10 should really be replaced by >=3.10 and that it makes little sense to use ~3.10, is turning that into a "community decision" - and I will be more than happy to simply follow it.
J. On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:08 PM Tzu-ping Chung <t...@astronomer.io.invalid> wrote: > You don’t find anyone actively saying it’s bad, but you also would not > find anyone recommending it with a good reason. With Python’s versioning > scheme, having <4 makes as much sense as (random example) <3.10. > > I believe the trend was started by Poetry having all version range > specifications to use ^ by default when you do “poetry add.” It’s a > reasonable default across the board, but unless you’re using a similar > automated tool, adding an upper cap to the supported Python version is > cargo cult. Extra characters without any reasoning behind them. > > -- > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 7 Jul 2025, at 13:39, Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > > > > > >> > >> Note that while, as mentioned, ~= is a standard and well-supported > > operator, it is generally NOT RECOMMENDED to be used for Python version > > specification. It is also not recommended to use the equivalent > expression > > composed with >= and <. > > > > Interesting - could you point where it is specified that it is not > > recommended ? (Not that I am complaining, I understand that Python does > > not follow SemVer, but I look hard and have not found any place where > > anyone would say it's not recommended - that was the first time I hear > it, > > but If I know that Python Packaging actually made that recommendation, I > > would be more than happy to just switch and not make any fuss about it. > > > >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 1:12 PM Tzu-ping Chung <t...@astronomer.io.invalid > > > >> wrote: > >> > >> Note that while, as mentioned, ~= is a standard and well-supported > >> operator, it is generally NOT RECOMMENDED to be used for Python version > >> specification. It is also not recommended to use the equivalent > expression > >> composed with >= and <. > >> > >> Python does not use semantic versioning, and backward incompatible > changes > >> are made in x.y releases (e.g. 3.10 can contain incompatibilities to > 3.9). > >> Setting <4 (or any single-segment version) is therefore arbitrary and > >> divorced of any practicality. > >> > >> I would highly suggest Airflow to simply change ~= to a simple >= > without > >> an upper limit. > >> > >> TP > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>>> On 7 Jul 2025, at 12:22, Amogh Desai <amoghdesai....@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks Jarek. > >>> > >>> I do not have a strong objection to either form. Both the ways are > >>> functionally the same and valid per PEP 440. > >>> > >>> If I had to slightly lean one way, I’d prefer ~=3.10 for its brevity > and > >>> simplicity. That said, I would also understand why > >>> some might prefer the more explicit >=3.10,<4, especially in a big > >> project > >>> like ours where there are lot of newcomers > >>> coming in all the time. > >>> > >>> I am ok to go with whatever the community prefers here. I am more > >>> interested in consistency in one way or another. > >>> > >>> Thanks & Regards, > >>> Amogh Desai > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:22 PM Pavankumar Gopidesu < > >> gopidesupa...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Jarek, > >>>> > >>>> I am just catching up with this discussion. I agree that this is > >>>> unilaterally forcing us to make changes, though the one (~=3.10) is > also > >>>> the standard one we have been using. > >>>> > >>>> I am in favour of using our existing convention ~=3.10. > >>>> > >>>> Pavan > >>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 10:12 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello here, > >>>>> > >>>>> If you have not noticed - we have a little bit of drama because in > the > >>>>> latest `uv` version, Astral unilaterally decided to make the `~=3.10` > >>>>> de-facto invalid specification. > >>>>> > >>>>> The `~=3.10` is a perfectly valid specification widely recognized as > >>>>> `>=3.10,<4` and specified like that (named "Compatible Release") in > >>>>> https://peps.python.org/pep-0440/#compatible-release and even if > the > >>>>> wording in the PEP is slightly ambiguous for the semantics of it - it > >> is > >>>>> widely recognized, quite heavily used and all Python tooling properly > >>>>> interpret it in the way described above. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yet the Astral team decided - unilaterally, that this is an ambiguous > >> and > >>>>> misleading specification and started issuing a warning about it. > >>>> Initially, > >>>>> the warning was pretty mysterious for workspace, because it did not > >> tell > >>>>> which pyproject.toml it came from (we had it in all providers and > >>>> breeze) - > >>>>> so after they implemented a fix, this turned into about a 100 > >>>> unsilenceable > >>>>> warnings every time you run `uv sync`. This happened after I > complained > >>>>> about this in the PR and proposed that there should be both - better > >>>>> message and a way to silence the warning for maintainers that they > know > >>>>> what they are doing) - yet uv 7.9.19 just made the situation worse by > >>>>> ballooning the number of warnings and still not allowing to silence > it. > >>>>> > >>>>> We are still waiting on a decision what Astral team will do in > >>>>> https://github.com/astral-sh/uv/issues/14422, Unfortunately there is > >> no > >>>>> community to make decisions there - this is a unilateral decision of > >>>> Astral > >>>>> team what they do, even if ~=3.10 is perfectly valid and recognized > >>>>> specification, that IMHO is not up to Astral team to make people > change > >>>>> their way. > >>>>> > >>>>> So for now we are literally being forced by Astral to change the way > we > >>>>> declare python compatibility - PR is here > >>>>> https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/52967 . The way how `uv` > >> workflow > >>>>> works makes it impossible to keep `~=3.10` - because every time you > run > >>>> `uv > >>>>> sync` - in our case literally several times a day you have 1.5 pages > of > >>>>> warnings in your terminal. So it's not a "recommendation" - we are > >> forced > >>>>> to change it. > >>>>> > >>>>> I do not particularly like being forced like that - for the "PEP > >>>> compliant" > >>>>> and "standard" feature by the Astral team - but for now I created the > >>>>> temporary fix - and hopefully the decision will be reversed and we > will > >>>> be > >>>>> able to silence the warning - if we choose to do so. > >>>>> > >>>>> Speaking of which: > >>>>> > >>>>> Assuming that we have a choice (we do not have it now) - what would > be > >>>> your > >>>>> preference: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Should we continue using ~3.10 ? > >>>>> * Or should we switch to >=3.10,<4 ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd love to hear - regardless of the forceful change now - what is > the > >>>>> preference of the community members. I have no "strong" preferences, > I > >>>>> slightly prefer the `~3.10` as it is more concise. But I know others > >>>> might > >>>>> have a different preference. And assuming that the Astral team will > >> stop > >>>>> forcing us to "voluntarily choose" the latter, I would love that our > >>>>> community makes that choice on their own. > >>>>> > >>>>> What do you prefer? > >>>>> > >>>>> J. > >>>>> > >>>> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@airflow.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@airflow.apache.org > >> > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@airflow.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@airflow.apache.org > >
