And ... interestingly enough currently the `uv` warning actually proposes `>= and <` , so we might want to tell them that they should not recommend it if it is not recommended by PyPA.
On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 1:39 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > > Note that while, as mentioned, ~= is a standard and well-supported > operator, it is generally NOT RECOMMENDED to be used for Python version > specification. It is also not recommended to use the equivalent expression > composed with >= and <. > > Interesting - could you point where it is specified that it is not > recommended ? (Not that I am complaining, I understand that Python does > not follow SemVer, but I look hard and have not found any place where > anyone would say it's not recommended - that was the first time I hear it, > but If I know that Python Packaging actually made that recommendation, I > would be more than happy to just switch and not make any fuss about it. > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 1:12 PM Tzu-ping Chung <t...@astronomer.io.invalid> > wrote: > >> Note that while, as mentioned, ~= is a standard and well-supported >> operator, it is generally NOT RECOMMENDED to be used for Python version >> specification. It is also not recommended to use the equivalent expression >> composed with >= and <. >> >> Python does not use semantic versioning, and backward incompatible >> changes are made in x.y releases (e.g. 3.10 can contain incompatibilities >> to 3.9). Setting <4 (or any single-segment version) is therefore arbitrary >> and divorced of any practicality. >> >> I would highly suggest Airflow to simply change ~= to a simple >= without >> an upper limit. >> >> TP >> >> -- >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 7 Jul 2025, at 12:22, Amogh Desai <amoghdesai....@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Thanks Jarek. >> > >> > I do not have a strong objection to either form. Both the ways are >> > functionally the same and valid per PEP 440. >> > >> > If I had to slightly lean one way, I’d prefer ~=3.10 for its brevity and >> > simplicity. That said, I would also understand why >> > some might prefer the more explicit >=3.10,<4, especially in a big >> project >> > like ours where there are lot of newcomers >> > coming in all the time. >> > >> > I am ok to go with whatever the community prefers here. I am more >> > interested in consistency in one way or another. >> > >> > Thanks & Regards, >> > Amogh Desai >> > >> > >> >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:22 PM Pavankumar Gopidesu < >> gopidesupa...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Thanks Jarek, >> >> >> >> I am just catching up with this discussion. I agree that this is >> >> unilaterally forcing us to make changes, though the one (~=3.10) is >> also >> >> the standard one we have been using. >> >> >> >> I am in favour of using our existing convention ~=3.10. >> >> >> >> Pavan >> >> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 10:12 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hello here, >> >>> >> >>> If you have not noticed - we have a little bit of drama because in the >> >>> latest `uv` version, Astral unilaterally decided to make the `~=3.10` >> >>> de-facto invalid specification. >> >>> >> >>> The `~=3.10` is a perfectly valid specification widely recognized as >> >>> `>=3.10,<4` and specified like that (named "Compatible Release") in >> >>> https://peps.python.org/pep-0440/#compatible-release and even if the >> >>> wording in the PEP is slightly ambiguous for the semantics of it - it >> is >> >>> widely recognized, quite heavily used and all Python tooling properly >> >>> interpret it in the way described above. >> >>> >> >>> Yet the Astral team decided - unilaterally, that this is an ambiguous >> and >> >>> misleading specification and started issuing a warning about it. >> >> Initially, >> >>> the warning was pretty mysterious for workspace, because it did not >> tell >> >>> which pyproject.toml it came from (we had it in all providers and >> >> breeze) - >> >>> so after they implemented a fix, this turned into about a 100 >> >> unsilenceable >> >>> warnings every time you run `uv sync`. This happened after I >> complained >> >>> about this in the PR and proposed that there should be both - better >> >>> message and a way to silence the warning for maintainers that they >> know >> >>> what they are doing) - yet uv 7.9.19 just made the situation worse by >> >>> ballooning the number of warnings and still not allowing to silence >> it. >> >>> >> >>> We are still waiting on a decision what Astral team will do in >> >>> https://github.com/astral-sh/uv/issues/14422, Unfortunately there is >> no >> >>> community to make decisions there - this is a unilateral decision of >> >> Astral >> >>> team what they do, even if ~=3.10 is perfectly valid and recognized >> >>> specification, that IMHO is not up to Astral team to make people >> change >> >>> their way. >> >>> >> >>> So for now we are literally being forced by Astral to change the way >> we >> >>> declare python compatibility - PR is here >> >>> https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/52967 . The way how `uv` >> workflow >> >>> works makes it impossible to keep `~=3.10` - because every time you >> run >> >> `uv >> >>> sync` - in our case literally several times a day you have 1.5 pages >> of >> >>> warnings in your terminal. So it's not a "recommendation" - we are >> forced >> >>> to change it. >> >>> >> >>> I do not particularly like being forced like that - for the "PEP >> >> compliant" >> >>> and "standard" feature by the Astral team - but for now I created the >> >>> temporary fix - and hopefully the decision will be reversed and we >> will >> >> be >> >>> able to silence the warning - if we choose to do so. >> >>> >> >>> Speaking of which: >> >>> >> >>> Assuming that we have a choice (we do not have it now) - what would be >> >> your >> >>> preference: >> >>> >> >>> * Should we continue using ~3.10 ? >> >>> * Or should we switch to >=3.10,<4 ? >> >>> >> >>> I'd love to hear - regardless of the forceful change now - what is the >> >>> preference of the community members. I have no "strong" preferences, I >> >>> slightly prefer the `~3.10` as it is more concise. But I know others >> >> might >> >>> have a different preference. And assuming that the Astral team will >> stop >> >>> forcing us to "voluntarily choose" the latter, I would love that our >> >>> community makes that choice on their own. >> >>> >> >>> What do you prefer? >> >>> >> >>> J. >> >>> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@airflow.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@airflow.apache.org >> >>
