Hi! I managed to do the last cleanup on the PR, and is ready for thorough review. I will create a `[LAZY CONSENSUS]` thread on Monday/Tuesday. Feel free to review and comment on the PR in the meantime.
Farhan On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 1:40 PM Stephen Mallette <spmalle...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ahmad, thanks for the updates! I've spent some time looking at the > changes and have added some comments and questions. I've pointed out a > couple things for future work that I think will be important, but nothing > that needs to be changed for this PR in my mind. Looking forward to seeing > your responses, other community feedback, and ultimately a merge of the > provider - take care! > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 7:28 AM Ahmad Farhan <ahmad.farhan9...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hello again! > > After several days of debugging and branch restructuring I managed to > > create another PR https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/47446, this is > > due > > to major merge conflicts after the www clean up. > > The renaming of the provider to apache-tinkerpop is done but I kept the > > integration testing as 'gremlin' to avoid the conflict/confusion with the > > server name within the CI. > > > > Please review the PR thoroughly and I am happy to work on the following > > steps. > > > > Thanks, > > Farhan > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 7:43 PM Ahmad Farhan <ahmad.farhan9...@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > I did look into the naming and I thought that it would need to be > > > discussed at some point before the lazy consensus stage after the dev > > work > > > is done but I guess I was wrong :) > > > > > > I read through some docs regarding the naming and I kept thinking that > > > Apache Gremlin might not be right, so I decided to remove 'Apache' from > > all > > > doc strings. One thing that popped in one of the documentations from > > > Microsoft that says Apache Gremlin (here > > > https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cosmos-db/gremlin/introduction > ) > > > which confused me. > > > > > > I will change the folder to apache/tinkerpop. Thanks Stephen for the > > > in-depth explanation. > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 6:56 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Cool. I will let Ahmad comment, but I think we found the **someone** > who > > >> will help in case there are some future issues with the > > Tinkerpop/Gremlin > > >> provider. > > >> While I like Gremlin better (it's just a cool name and I like the > logo, > > >> tinkerpop has a cool logo as well > > https://tinkerpop.apache.org/index.html > > >> ). > > >> > > >> So as long as we decide not to use common.graph -> I am fine with both > > :) > > >> > > >> j. > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 7:42 PM Stephen Mallette < > spmalle...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 12:57 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > In the interest of ASF trademarks, I would suggest it be called > > >> > > "apache/tinkerpop" with "Gremlin" naming reserved for operators > and > > >> the > > >> > > like, as it is now with GremlinOperator. I think this makes sense > > >> because > > >> > > it is connecting to TinkerPop-enabled systems via Gremlin. I would > > >> > > similarly suggest that references to "Apache Gremlin" and the like > > >> become > > >> > > "Apache TinkerPop". > > >> > > > > >> > > That's an interesting one - indeed TinkerPop is the PMC/ > Framework - > > >> > > Gremlin is the language. > > >> > > > > >> > > I am not sure we are actually using TinkerPop here - because > > >> TinkerPop is > > >> > > the whole framework - Ahmad, can you explain the relation there - > > are > > >> > those > > >> > > other systems simply implement Gremlin as language or do they use > > >> > TinkerPop > > >> > > for something / as a backend? > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > I'm sure Ahmad could answer but I'll quickly offer my take. I think > > >> that in > > >> > this case we should prefer "TinkerPop" over Gremlin as a top-level > > name > > >> > particularly because it's prefixed with "Apache" and there is no > > "Apache > > >> > Gremlin" which I tend to think is confusing when the words are that > > >> close > > >> > together. I can't recall over the years just how many times I've > asked > > >> for > > >> > corrections in blog posts. :) > > >> > > > >> > Because that's a bit of a conceptual difference here. For example in > > the > > >> > > provider we are importing https://pypi.org/project/gremlinpython > > not > > >> > > "tinkerpop" - and it also does not have tinkerpop as dependency. > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > A bit of history goes along with a lot of our naming for what we > term > > >> > Gremlin Language Variants (GLVs), like gremlinpython, which are > > >> variants of > > >> > Gremlin natively implemented to allow users to express Gremlin in > the > > >> > idioms of their own language. They also provide driver connectivity > to > > >> > compatible servers. TinkerPop has mostly inherited all of its > language > > >> > variants, including gremlinpython which was the first, from > > third-party > > >> > community developers. As a project, we didn't really get a hand in > the > > >> > naming so with those projects already in heavy use we just kinda of > > >> stuck > > >> > to it and even doubled-down (like when we built gremlin-go within > the > > >> ASF). > > >> > > > >> > I think in this case, your project organization under "apache" seems > > to > > >> > almost lend itself nicely to apache/tinkerpop. i think users will > > >> recognize > > >> > it as equally as they recognize Gremlin. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > I wonder if Gremlin is also a Trademark by Apache ? Maybe we > should > > >> ask > > >> > > tinkerpop PMC what they think about it? > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > Gremlin is not an ASF trademark. That was debated for quite a long > > time > > >> > with trademarks@ along with deciding if Gremlin, the character and > > his > > >> > friends[1], were to be protected. In the end, for reasons I'm not > > sure I > > >> > quite remember, the ASF didn't think it was necessary. > > >> > > > >> > Anyway, I'm not sure if you noted my earlier post[2] but I'm one of > > the > > >> > original contributors to Apache TinkerPop, even before we brought it > > to > > >> the > > >> > ASF so I'm pretty familiar with our project. :) > > >> > > > >> > [1] > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > https://github.com/apache/tinkerpop/blob/master/docs/static/images/tinkerpop3-splash.png > > >> > [2] > https://lists.apache.org/thread/9hf4t8hyk944fyo4q3nygczyo5xhk18y > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > J. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 4:55 PM Stephen Mallette < > > >> spmalle...@apache.org> > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On 2025/02/26 12:38:02 Jarek Potiuk wrote: > > >> > > > > Yeah . `apache/gremlin" seems like a better option then. Does > > >> anyone > > >> > > have > > >> > > > > anything against it? > > >> > > > > > >> > > > In the interest of ASF trademarks, I would suggest it be called > > >> > > > "apache/tinkerpop" with "Gremlin" naming reserved for operators > > and > > >> the > > >> > > > like, as it is now with GremlinOperator. I think this makes > sense > > >> > because > > >> > > > it is connecting to TinkerPop-enabled systems via Gremlin. I > would > > >> > > > similarly suggest that references to "Apache Gremlin" and the > like > > >> > become > > >> > > > "Apache TinkerPop". > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I think we are pretty happy with accepting "other > > >> > > > > apache" projects as providers, so I see no issue with Gremlin > - > > >> > knowing > > >> > > > > that we can always reach out to our friendly Apache Community > in > > >> case > > >> > > of > > >> > > > > any issues. So - unless we do not hear any "opposition" in a > few > > >> > days, > > >> > > I > > >> > > > > think it would make sense if you start `[LAZY CONSENSUS]` > > thread - > > >> > > > > without a need for `[VOTE]` thread. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > One thing though that I would love to have - is to also have > an > > >> > > > integration > > >> > > > > test if possible (we had it with apache.kafka for example) - > > those > > >> > are > > >> > > > > tests that could run **some** graphdb database locally (via > > >> > > > docker-compose) > > >> > > > > and run a very rudimentary checks against a "real" database, > > not a > > >> > > mocked > > >> > > > > call. That would make it more robust. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > More about integration tests, how to build, run, test them and > > >> > > integrate > > >> > > > > them in our CI can be found here: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > https://github.com/apache/airflow/blob/main/contributing-docs/testing/integration_tests.rst > > >> > > > > - happy to help if you are stuck with it. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > J. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 1:25 PM Ahmad Farhan < > > >> > > ahmad.farhan9...@gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I pushed changes to move the provider into the “apache” > > >> directory. > > >> > > > After > > >> > > > > > updating the class references across the project, I > re-tested > > >> and > > >> > all > > >> > > > tests > > >> > > > > > passed. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Regarding the use of Gremlin (or another graph query > language > > >> like > > >> > > > Cypher > > >> > > > > > and SPARQL) for a common package approach, here are my > > thoughts > > >> on > > >> > > the > > >> > > > pros > > >> > > > > > and cons: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > pros (I can see only one): > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > - Gremlin has been widely adopted by different cloud > > vendors > > >> > (e.g. > > >> > > > Azure > > >> > > > > > Cosmos DB with Apache Gremlin and AWS Neptune) as well as > > in > > >> > > > self-hosted > > >> > > > > > environments. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > cons: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > - Gremlin, Cypher (native for Neo4j) and SPARQL each have > > >> their > > >> > > own > > >> > > > > > drivers for executing queries. > > >> > > > > > - To achieve a common abstraction, a wrapper around each > > >> driver > > >> > > > would be > > >> > > > > > required. Each driver has its own connection parameters, > > >> > > underlying > > >> > > > > > protocols, and may need method overrides for > compatibility > > >> with > > >> > > > > > different > > >> > > > > > Python versions. > > >> > > > > > - Not all vendors support every query language; for > > instance, > > >> > > > Gremlin > > >> > > > > > for Neo4j has been deprecated in recent releases, while > > >> Cosmos > > >> > DB > > >> > > > does > > >> > > > > > not > > >> > > > > > support Cypher or SPARQL. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > While it would be ideal to have a unified graph query > language > > >> and > > >> > > > driver > > >> > > > > > that works seamlessly across different vendors, such a > > solution > > >> > does > > >> > > > not > > >> > > > > > exist at the moment. In my opinion, implementing > > >> provider-specific > > >> > > > > > solutions for each query language (Gremlin, Cypher, SPARQL) > is > > >> more > > >> > > > > > realistic and practical given the current landscape. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Happy to discuss further or answer any questions! > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Farhan > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 11:33 AM Ahmad Farhan < > > >> > > > ahmad.farhan9...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have worked with two different graph database > > vendors—Azure > > >> > > Cosmos > > >> > > > DB > > >> > > > > > > and Neo4j. During our migration to Neo4j, we discovered > that > > >> > using > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > > > Gremlin language wasn’t possible; we were forced to > rewrite > > >> all > > >> > our > > >> > > > > > queries > > >> > > > > > > into Cypher, which is the native language for Neo4j and, > in > > my > > >> > > > > > experience, > > >> > > > > > > much simpler for querying. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > This situation highlights a key challenge for a common > > >> > abstraction: > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > > > underlying query languages and connection/authentication > > >> > mechanisms > > >> > > > vary > > >> > > > > > > significantly. Gremlin is not only different from Cypher > in > > >> > syntax > > >> > > > but is > > >> > > > > > > also deprecated for Neo4j (see > > >> > > > > > > > > >> https://tinkerpop.apache.org/docs/3.7.3/reference/#neo4j-gremlin > > >> > ). > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The question would be how can the common approach > > accommodate > > >> > these > > >> > > > > > > different query languages? > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 7:36 PM Jarek Potiuk < > > >> ja...@potiuk.com> > > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Without deep looking at the code I love the idea - it's > > very > > >> > > > similar to > > >> > > > > > >> what we have for common.sql and common.io - and soon > > >> > > > common.messaging > > >> > > > > > - I > > >> > > > > > >> also - long time ago - suggested common.dataframe that > > >> someone > > >> > > could > > >> > > > > > >> submit > > >> > > > > > >> using Apache Ibis: > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/qx3yh6h0l6jb0kh3fz9q95b3x5b4001l > > >> > > - > > >> > > > > > >> similarly I believe there was an idea about common.llm > ... > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> I think the "common" pattern is a great one for Airflow, > to > > >> > build > > >> > > > on top > > >> > > > > > >> of > > >> > > > > > >> "other giants" who build those common abstractions that > you > > >> can > > >> > > > easily > > >> > > > > > >> switch between different implementations of various data > > >> access > > >> > > > layers. > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> My suggestion and question - would be however (not very > > >> strong > > >> > on > > >> > > > it, I > > >> > > > > > >> would love to hear what others think, I know it's been > > >> somewhat > > >> > > > > > >> contentious > > >> > > > > > >> when I started the ibis discussion) - would be to make it > > >> > > > > > "common.graph", > > >> > > > > > >> "common.dataframe" - instead of "apache.gremlin" or > > >> > "apache.ibis" > > >> > > - > > >> > > > just > > >> > > > > > >> to > > >> > > > > > >> stress that those are not implementations of particular > > >> service > > >> > > but > > >> > > > > > >> opinionated choice of particular technology to do > "common" > > >> > > > operations. > > >> > > > > > >> This > > >> > > > > > >> is what essentially "common.io" is . - it should be > named > > >> > > "fsspec" > > >> > > > > > >> provider > > >> > > > > > >> if we were to name it by the "library" that implemented > it. > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> J. > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 8:22 PM Ahmad Farhan < > > >> > > > > > ahmad.farhan9...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > Hi Everyone, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > I’ve created a draft PR ( > > >> > > > https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/46977 > > >> > > > > > ) > > >> > > > > > >> to > > >> > > > > > >> > introduce and discuss a new provider for using > > Gremlin—the > > >> > graph > > >> > > > > > >> traversal > > >> > > > > > >> > language of Apache TinkerPop (more details here: > > >> > > > > > >> > https://tinkerpop.apache.org/gremlin.html). Gremlin is > > >> > > supported > > >> > > > by > > >> > > > > > >> > various > > >> > > > > > >> > graph database vendors such as Azure Cosmos DB and > Amazon > > >> > > Neptune. > > >> > > > > > >> > Previously, I had to develop a custom hook to query > data > > >> from > > >> > > > Azure > > >> > > > > > >> Cosmos > > >> > > > > > >> > DB using Apache Gremlin. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > I managed to create a provider and run it locally on > the > > >> main > > >> > > > branch. > > >> > > > > > >> > However, I ran into the BaseHook issue ( > > >> > > > > > >> > https://github.com/apache/airflow/issues/45233) on > that > > >> > branch, > > >> > > > so I > > >> > > > > > >> ended > > >> > > > > > >> > up testing it fully on the v2-10-test branch. The PR > > >> should be > > >> > > > > > complete, > > >> > > > > > >> > but I’ve kept it as a draft for now while we discuss > the > > >> > > provider. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > I’m a new contributor, so I’m especially eager to hear > > your > > >> > > > feedback. > > >> > > > > > >> > Comments on the PR is very welcome, and please feel > free > > to > > >> > > reach > > >> > > > out > > >> > > > > > >> with > > >> > > > > > >> > any questions via email or Slack. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > > > > > >> > Ahmad Farhan > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@airflow.apache.org > > >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@airflow.apache.org > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >
