Hi, I precise I'm ready to think with GNOME of way to help for face-to-face tests, regression tests, writing docs. But it implies a willing, a true choice, and time. So ... to be discussed.
Regards, Le 22/05/2016 22:33, Samuel Thibault a écrit : > Mario Lang, on Sun 22 May 2016 21:56:00 +0200, wrote: >> What I am trying to say is, if a desktop wants to provide Accessibility >> that is actually useful to users, they will have to invest more time >> into it then they currently are willing to do. > > Well, perhaps it's not a question of time, but of methodology. > >> * Do some real usability testing with blind users. >> Unsupervised solo experiments do often lead to very vague and emotional >> results. > > Yes, I'd say that's why the lack of precise feedback for gnome: users > are simply lost in the new interface, and can't provide anything useful. > > I'm wondering: do gnome maintainers actually make real face-to-face > testing with blind users? As Jean-Philippe Mengual said, there is a lot > of work done on the technical side, perhaps it's just lacking actual > testing with real users? I'd say it's perhaps unfair to suggest that > gnome maintainers need to spend more time than they already do (I don't > know if we know how much they do), and that the issue is rather that > there is no face-to-face feedback? > > Also, is there a guide for blind people new to gnome3, teaching how the > interface is working? If there is one, we need to point to it from > the debian accessibility wiki. If there is none, then that's possibly > simply what Jean-Philippe and Mario are lacking? One issue when > introducing a completely different way to interact with the desktop, > as gnome3 did, is that it introduces new concepts. These concepts > are typically designed for sighted people first (I'm not saying that > gnome3 did it this way, I don't know, I only guess that's probably how > it happened), and are thus made to be intuitive for sighted people. > Maintainers then forget that they are probably not intuitive for > non-sighed people, and the new concepts thus *have* to be explained to > them. And I'd say you can not write a guide explaining the new concepts > without actually discussing face-to-face with a really blind user who > never *saw* the new interface, so that he pinpoints the things which > need to be explicited because they are not obvious when you can't see > (and that you can not un-understand once you have understood them, and > thus would forget to mention them). That "freshman" step is required, I > believe. > > Samuel > > -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL HYPRA, progressons ensemble Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61 Mail: cont...@hypra.fr Site Web: http://hypra.fr