Luke Yelavich <luke.yelav...@canonical.com> writes: > On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 06:33:49AM AEST, Samuel Thibault wrote: >> Mario Lang, on Sun 22 May 2016 21:56:00 +0200, wrote: >> > What I am trying to say is, if a desktop wants to provide Accessibility >> > that is actually useful to users, they will have to invest more time >> > into it then they currently are willing to do. >> >> Well, perhaps it's not a question of time, but of methodology. >> >> > * Do some real usability testing with blind users. >> > Unsupervised solo experiments do often lead to very vague and emotional >> > results. >> >> Yes, I'd say that's why the lack of precise feedback for gnome: users >> are simply lost in the new interface, and can't provide anything useful. >> >> I'm wondering: do gnome maintainers actually make real face-to-face >> testing with blind users? As Jean-Philippe Mengual said, there is a lot >> of work done on the technical side, perhaps it's just lacking actual >> testing with real users? I'd say it's perhaps unfair to suggest that >> gnome maintainers need to spend more time than they already do (I don't >> know if we know how much they do), and that the issue is rather that >> there is no face-to-face feedback? > > The GNOME design team is regularly working with maintainers to improve > application design. I have been thinking for a while now that someone who > knows Orca well, and who knows how keyboard interraction with widgets should > work, needs to get with the design team, and work out how keyboard navigation > should function with particular widgets, and the way they are layed out in > an application. Some of this work can probably be done within GTK itself, > but certainly most of the work would need doing in the applications. This > side would require someone who has a strong understanding of atk and GTK > interraction, go into the code, and implement the desired outcome for > keyboard navigation, as it is likely the app maintainer isn't sure how to > do that. > > GNOME as a whole is also doing away with menus, however I don't think > the equivalent keyboard access is known about widely, and if it is, its > obviously not usable enough, and work needs to be done, probably with the > design team to spec it out. > > I also think that the keyboard shortcuts for GNOME shell need investigating, > and maybe adding to. It is currently possible to get to the GNOME top > panel with Super + M, but that lands you in the message tray, and even > though you can get to the rest of the panel from there, its still a clunky > solution. Super + F10 works to get to the app menu, but you have to be in > an app for that to work, you cannot use it on the desktop.
Thanks for this very accurate summary. I think you have given the best account of what is *actually* confusing people currently so far in this thread. +1 on everything you said. -- CYa, ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕
