Mario Lang, on Sun 22 May 2016 21:56:00 +0200, wrote: > What I am trying to say is, if a desktop wants to provide Accessibility > that is actually useful to users, they will have to invest more time > into it then they currently are willing to do.
Well, perhaps it's not a question of time, but of methodology. > * Do some real usability testing with blind users. > Unsupervised solo experiments do often lead to very vague and emotional > results. Yes, I'd say that's why the lack of precise feedback for gnome: users are simply lost in the new interface, and can't provide anything useful. I'm wondering: do gnome maintainers actually make real face-to-face testing with blind users? As Jean-Philippe Mengual said, there is a lot of work done on the technical side, perhaps it's just lacking actual testing with real users? I'd say it's perhaps unfair to suggest that gnome maintainers need to spend more time than they already do (I don't know if we know how much they do), and that the issue is rather that there is no face-to-face feedback? Also, is there a guide for blind people new to gnome3, teaching how the interface is working? If there is one, we need to point to it from the debian accessibility wiki. If there is none, then that's possibly simply what Jean-Philippe and Mario are lacking? One issue when introducing a completely different way to interact with the desktop, as gnome3 did, is that it introduces new concepts. These concepts are typically designed for sighted people first (I'm not saying that gnome3 did it this way, I don't know, I only guess that's probably how it happened), and are thus made to be intuitive for sighted people. Maintainers then forget that they are probably not intuitive for non-sighed people, and the new concepts thus *have* to be explained to them. And I'd say you can not write a guide explaining the new concepts without actually discussing face-to-face with a really blind user who never *saw* the new interface, so that he pinpoints the things which need to be explicited because they are not obvious when you can't see (and that you can not un-understand once you have understood them, and thus would forget to mention them). That "freshman" step is required, I believe. Samuel
