On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 06:33:49AM AEST, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Mario Lang, on Sun 22 May 2016 21:56:00 +0200, wrote: > > What I am trying to say is, if a desktop wants to provide Accessibility > > that is actually useful to users, they will have to invest more time > > into it then they currently are willing to do. > > Well, perhaps it's not a question of time, but of methodology. > > > * Do some real usability testing with blind users. > > Unsupervised solo experiments do often lead to very vague and emotional > > results. > > Yes, I'd say that's why the lack of precise feedback for gnome: users > are simply lost in the new interface, and can't provide anything useful. > > I'm wondering: do gnome maintainers actually make real face-to-face > testing with blind users? As Jean-Philippe Mengual said, there is a lot > of work done on the technical side, perhaps it's just lacking actual > testing with real users? I'd say it's perhaps unfair to suggest that > gnome maintainers need to spend more time than they already do (I don't > know if we know how much they do), and that the issue is rather that > there is no face-to-face feedback?
The GNOME design team is regularly working with maintainers to improve application design. I have been thinking for a while now that someone who knows Orca well, and who knows how keyboard interraction with widgets should work, needs to get with the design team, and work out how keyboard navigation should function with particular widgets, and the way they are layed out in an application. Some of this work can probably be done within GTK itself, but certainly most of the work would need doing in the applications. This side would require someone who has a strong understanding of atk and GTK interraction, go into the code, and implement the desired outcome for keyboard navigation, as it is likely the app maintainer isn't sure how to do that. GNOME as a whole is also doing away with menus, however I don't think the equivalent keyboard access is known about widely, and if it is, its obviously not usable enough, and work needs to be done, probably with the design team to spec it out. I also think that the keyboard shortcuts for GNOME shell need investigating, and maybe adding to. It is currently possible to get to the GNOME top panel with Super + M, but that lands you in the message tray, and even though you can get to the rest of the panel from there, its still a clunky solution. Super + F10 works to get to the app menu, but you have to be in an app for that to work, you cannot use it on the desktop. Luke
